What is Christmas Really About?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign Rob, welcome back to the Nomad Pastor podcast. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Hey, Been today. [00:00:11] Speaker A: It's been a. It's been a morning. [00:00:13] Speaker B: Hey, the cool thing about it is it's kind of been a crazy morning for me, too. It was, you know, some stuff going on at work for some projects that they want to have done by the. Actually the 29th of May this month. There is no way. [00:00:28] Speaker A: Yeah, been there. [00:00:28] Speaker B: It's going to get done. [00:00:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:00:30] Speaker B: So I'm. I'm trying to kind of wade through this and kind of get these guys, you know, done with the physical layer of it, you know, and then there's another part of the physical layer that's just. There's. The wiring is not anywhere close to being up to Vanderbilt standards. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Right. So, you know, trying to get all that done, and then I'm trying to get out for the day, and 15 minutes before I'm leaving, I'm getting phone calls. Hey, can. Can you do this? Can you do this? Can you do this? Okay. I'm gonna make this in one fell swoop. You know, I'm gonna stop over, you know, on my way out. I'll stop in, take care of everything, and then I'm gone. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Right. So I'm walking out the door and I'm like, hey, y'all have a great weekend. I'll talk to you later. He's like, you out of here, Rob? Yeah. You're not gonna stay? No. I told you this morning, I'm leaving. [00:01:12] Speaker A: That's right. [00:01:12] Speaker B: So I'm gone. I'm gone. [00:01:14] Speaker A: That's right. Done. It's been enough. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And it has been. [00:01:18] Speaker A: Well, you know, that's how I think with both of us. You know, we understand this, and I think sometimes people don't understand it, but in it, you work holidays, you do. Right. You work weekends, you work nights, you work holidays. And when it starts getting close to the end of the year, everybody wants it done before the year's over. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Spend that money, get it implemented so I can start depreciating it. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Yep, yep, yep. That way, you know, come January 1st. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:45] Speaker B: It's a whole new ballgame. And that's right. The. The. The funny thing about it with I don't know who is your fiscal year. [00:01:50] Speaker A: Calendar year? Yeah. [00:01:51] Speaker B: So your calendar year is fiscal year. [00:01:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:53] Speaker B: See, ours is July 1st. Oh, yeah. So we still have half, you know, mid year stuff that's got to close. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:02] Speaker B: You know, and. And get everything closed out. But other vendors and contractors and things that we use are calendar year. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:02:11] Speaker B: You know, so it gets kind of crazy sometimes trying to finish up a project and trying to get everything done, and. And then when contracts are written, you know, for calendar year instead of fiscal year, it gets. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:23] Speaker B: It's, you know, it's scary, but it's, you know, it is what it is. It is what it is. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So look, this episode will actually air on Christmas Day. [00:02:34] Speaker B: Yep. [00:02:35] Speaker A: So we wanted to talk. Well, first. Merry Christmas Day. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Merry Christmas to everybody. Yeah. [00:02:40] Speaker A: But we also wanted to talk about, you know, what. What Christmas really means. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Yep. [00:02:47] Speaker A: I think, you know, it's easy for us to lose sight of what Christmas is and why. [00:02:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:56] Speaker A: And so that's going to be the topic of our conversation. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm looking forward to this conversation. And I'm. You know, once again, we don't prep for anything. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:07] Speaker B: So we come in and sit down at the table and like, what do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. So we. We, both of us had just a little bit of an idea of what we wanted to talk about. Absolutely. This one today, for this Christmas Day podcast is the birth of Christ. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:25] Speaker B: And I have done a little bit of backstory on some of this. On, you know, was Christ actually born on Christmas Day? Or, you know, was. And. And I've come to the conclusion that he may not have been, but the important thing is that he was born. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I don't think he was born on Christmas Day. I don't. I don't know for sure. [00:03:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:51] Speaker A: But I don't think it matters. [00:03:52] Speaker B: I have an idea that it was around September. Ish. [00:03:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Which, you know, since I'm a September baby as well, like to think that Jesus and I have the same birthday. May not have. But you know what? [00:04:08] Speaker A: There's a chance. [00:04:08] Speaker B: There's a chance. So. But anyway, you want to start reading the scripture or. [00:04:14] Speaker A: Well, I think we're just going to. It's just like two verses, right? [00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah. You're going to go to 10, 11. [00:04:19] Speaker A: So it's Luke, chapter two, verses 10 and 11. And so the angel said to them, do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy, which will be for all the people. For today in the city of David, there has been born. There has been born for you a savior who is Christ the Lord. [00:04:43] Speaker B: So I think we. We get so wrapped up in the economy of Christmas. [00:04:51] Speaker A: Yes, we do. [00:04:52] Speaker B: We get so wrapped up in, you know, whether Santa is actually Satan. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:58] Speaker B: You know, you get wrapped up in. How can a Christian, you know, celebrate a pagan holiday and all those things. I think for what today is being Christmas Day, I think we need to focus on the last part of verse 11. Christ the Lord. [00:05:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:19] Speaker B: And all of the other arguing and arbitrary things aside of the actual date or pagan holiday or whether it's German or whatever, I don't care about that neither. I don't care about that. The important thing for me is to celebrate Christ the Lord and what this birth means to me as a Christian and to the church body as a whole. Not just my church and your church, but to the Christian faith as a whole. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:05:58] Speaker B: And so I think in this discussion today and what we're going to be talking about, I think I want to remind folks that no matter when it was, no matter how you celebrate this time of year, you know, whether, you know, winter solstice was your favorite day or whatever, it doesn't, you know, I want to, I want to celebrate Christ the Lord so that every single day of my life, that, that is a prominent theme in my day to day activities. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with that. I think, you know, if I just look at myself, right. You know, before coming to Christ, Christmas was a big deal for a different reason. Right. It was very over the top. Very like. [00:06:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:49] Speaker A: You know, I don't even know how many presents the kids would get and. Oh yeah, I mean, I just, it was just honestly sick and ridiculous. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:58] Speaker A: Look, I love the memories, so I don't want to take away from that. [00:07:01] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:07:01] Speaker A: But before Christ, I was idolizing the holiday. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Right, right. Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker A: And I think when we look at this time of year, that's where we get into trouble. Right. If we spend our time focusing on the gift, I'm going to get, the dinner I'm going to have, the vacation I'm going to take, whatever it may be, if it's put above Christ, that's when it becomes a problem. And frankly, any holiday can be called a pagan holiday if you're putting it above Jesus, regardless of what it is. [00:07:41] Speaker B: You're right. [00:07:43] Speaker A: And I think a lot of times, for many, many years, for me, that's unfortunately what it was. It wasn't, oh, this is a pagan holiday or I knew it was about the birth of Christ, but it wasn't celebrating the birth of Christ. [00:07:58] Speaker B: So that's the difference. You knew it was about the birth of Christ, but you didn't celebrate the birth of Christ because you were celebrating the, the, the materialistic aspect. Yeah, that, yeah, that's what I was looking for. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Realistic aspect of the holiday. And. And, you know, we. I was thinking back about, you know, Christmases as a kid, you know, and I remember we had a Christmas tree and. And my grandmother had a Christmas tree and granny had a Christmas tree. It was one of those artificial trees that was silver. It was like tin foil. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:08:34] Speaker B: And you couldn't put lights on it, so she had that little spiral color wheel that showed up on it, you know, and we put tinsel and all, you know, look, candy canes and the ornaments and all that stuff, you know, and. And to be honest with you, I don't remember a lot of presents that I got for Christmas when I was a kid. You know, there's two or three that come to mind. But the main thing that I remember was being with family. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:59] Speaker B: And my family being all, like, believers. You know, I don't necessarily know that we. I don't remember sitting down and like, reading Luke chapter two from Jesus birth. You know, I don't. I don't remember doing any of that. What I do remember is the joy of being there as a kid with family. That was from other parts of the other parts of the country. Here's my point with that. What I would have. What I would fondly remember would have been, you know, the times when being together at Christmas time, Easter, Halloween, whenever. And. And remembering talking about Christ. [00:09:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:45] Speaker B: As. As the Savior and celebrating either his birth, his death, or his resurrection, or, you know, and here's. Here's the main point that we've got to come to with Christmas. No matter when Christ was born, there would not be an open tomb without the birth of a baby in a man. [00:10:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:10:05] Speaker B: You know, and that's. That's the point that we've got to get to. [00:10:09] Speaker A: There absolutely would not be an open tomb. There would have been no crucifixion. There would have been no miracles performed by Christ. [00:10:17] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Without that birth. [00:10:19] Speaker B: Yep, yep. So let's. Let's talk a little bit about. Oh, keep going. Is that a good one? [00:10:30] Speaker A: I don't know who it is. [00:10:32] Speaker B: Okay. All right, well, I'm gonna take mine off the table so in case. In mine buzzes. It won't. It won't buzz. Like, let's talk a little bit about that prophecy. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:41] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:42] Speaker A: I think, you know, there's a lot of people who say, like, well, he was just a good man. [00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:49] Speaker A: He was just this. Or even. Even the Quran says, well, he was, you know, a prophet, but they don't believe that he was the Messiah. [00:10:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:56] Speaker A: When you Think about the prophecy, right? Isaiah talks about it, Micah talks about it. There's tons of them. [00:11:02] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:11:03] Speaker A: And I think the interesting thing about the prophecies of the Old Testament, you know, Micah says he's going to be from Bethlehem. [00:11:11] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:11:13] Speaker A: Isaiah says, you know, he's going to be. A child is going to be born, you know, to us, a son given all these things. And I think it's Isaiah that says, going to be born of a virgin. [00:11:22] Speaker B: Right, right. Yeah. [00:11:26] Speaker A: All of these things were outside of the control of Christ. [00:11:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:32] Speaker A: And when I, and when I say that is, you know, I've heard people say, well, you know, he knew the Old Testament good enough that he knew what the prophecies were. Well, you know, to say that, well, he wasn't really the Messiah. He went and did this because he knew what the prophecy was. [00:11:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:53] Speaker A: Like I've heard atheists say that. [00:11:54] Speaker B: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. [00:11:56] Speaker A: Not Christians. [00:11:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:58] Speaker A: And so my take on that is when you look at these prophecies that he fulfilled, there was a lot of them that he didn't. It happened before he came. [00:12:08] Speaker B: Okay, Right, right. [00:12:10] Speaker A: So he wouldn't have known. I mean, he knew, but he wouldn't. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Well, I mean, he was there when the prophecies were written. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Right, right, right. [00:12:16] Speaker B: You know? Yeah. [00:12:17] Speaker A: It's just one of those things like. Do you really know what you're talking about? [00:12:23] Speaker B: Well, so naysayers. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Naysayers. [00:12:28] Speaker B: Okay. Are going to, they're going to try to put up any front that they can to prove what their point is. It's kind of like the flat earth people. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:39] Speaker B: That kind of cracks me up. [00:12:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:41] Speaker B: You know, and especially the flat earthers that were like, that went to scout sniper school or there are aviators or, you know, somebody that should be in the know. [00:12:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:56] Speaker B: And, and think, you know, so getting back to the naysayer thing with atheism and even the Quran or the Mormon faith, you know, and, and some different ones that don't ascribe or subscribe to Jesus being the Messiah. [00:13:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:17] Speaker B: Here's what I have to. Here's. Here's how I say that if he was not the Messiah, if he was not who he claimed to have been, how could the world have come to the point that it is today when, with the events that have happened in history that we have historical data, facts on and that we've been able to prove, how could any of that have happened? [00:13:45] Speaker A: Oh, it absolutely couldn't have. [00:13:47] Speaker B: So my point is this. For those who say, oh, he was just a good dude, hold on just a minute. He wasn't just a good dude. [00:13:57] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:58] Speaker B: The historical data that we have proven comes from the word of God. [00:14:02] Speaker A: You know what I think is interesting about that? When you talk about historical data, and I know, you know, this is off topic, but I don't. It is what it is. Right, right. Maybe it's not. But I don't understand the people that believe what that they believe in. Like, oh, yeah, Caesar was, you know, Julius Caesar was the ruler of Rome at this time, or Galileo said this. [00:14:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:28] Speaker A: But there is far more factual evidence. [00:14:31] Speaker B: There is, there is. There is. [00:14:32] Speaker A: To the birth, death and resurrection of Christ. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:38] Speaker A: Then all of these other things combined. Combined, Right, right. Like, I'm sure you know the number, but there's like over 300 prophecies were fulfilled from the Old Testament through the life of Christ. [00:14:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Through his life, he fulfilled over 300 prophecies. Well, every single 313 or something like that. [00:14:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't remember exact number, but every single. Every single prophecy about him was that. [00:15:02] Speaker A: That's right. And so there was a mathematician that was a professor that wanted to understand the statistical probability of this occurring. Right. And so he had 600 students in his class that year, and he got all 600 students to actually do the statistical analysis on if Jesus fulfilled eight of the prophecies. [00:15:32] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:33] Speaker A: What was the stat in the. And the book is called Science Speaks. [00:15:36] Speaker B: Science Speaks. Okay. [00:15:37] Speaker A: It's hard to find. But so they said they found out based on just pure mathematics, that for him to fulfill eight of the prophecies, it was like 1 in 17 to the 10th power. So that's a 17 with 10 zeros behind it. [00:15:54] Speaker B: Wow. [00:15:55] Speaker A: So he. In the book, he says, let me give you an illustration. [00:15:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:59] Speaker A: He says, take the state of Texas, the entire state of Texas, fill it two feet deep with silver dollars. Blindfold somebody after you blindfold them, somewhere in the state of Texas, put a red X on one of the silver dollars and then say, go find it. The statistical probability of them finding it on the first try is 1 in 17 to the 10th power. [00:16:29] Speaker B: What? [00:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. [00:16:33] Speaker A: That's. The statistics of Jesus only fulfilled eight. [00:16:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Now, I don't know all the details, but in the book he talks about what are the statistics if he fulfilled 48, and it's like every particle in the universe, take one of them, put a dot on it, and get somebody to pick it. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Wow. [00:16:54] Speaker A: And he fulfilled over 300. [00:16:57] Speaker B: Wow. [00:16:58] Speaker A: So if you want to talk, like, the significance of this birth. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right. Yeah. [00:17:06] Speaker A: And then the fulfillment of the prophecies through. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's astounding. Astounding. When you put numbers to. When you. [00:17:15] Speaker A: When you put math. Right now you can't change math. One plus one is always going to be two. Right. One in 17 to the 10th power for eight proph. For eight prophecies. [00:17:29] Speaker B: I wonder what it was like for the 313. [00:17:31] Speaker A: I don't know that they did the Math for the 313. [00:17:34] Speaker B: How could. Well, I mean, you would have to have a, you know, a giant supercomputer, probably the size of this house. [00:17:41] Speaker A: It's a ridiculous number, I'm sure. [00:17:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I guarantee it. But that's crazy. [00:17:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So when you go back to the right, do not be afraid. For behold, I will bring you good news of great joy, with which will be for all the people. [00:17:58] Speaker B: I have all the people underlined in my Bible. [00:18:01] Speaker A: Yeah. I tried to emphasize all the people. [00:18:04] Speaker B: Yeah. All the people. For today in the city of David, there's been born to you a savior who is Christ the Lord. So let me ask you this. Why is it so easy, and I want to say almost blase, for us to glaze over this and. And allow people to ruin our celebration of the birth of Christ? [00:18:39] Speaker A: That's a great question. I think culture, I think culturally. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker A: A lot of people that are maybe not Christians at a young age, the culture has been Christmas and Santa Claus. [00:19:00] Speaker B: Yeah, right, right. [00:19:01] Speaker A: And of course, it's better to give than to receive. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, right. [00:19:05] Speaker A: All that crap that we never listened to when we were kids. Where's my presence? [00:19:10] Speaker B: How come I got a red bike and I got a blue one? [00:19:13] Speaker A: How come I didn't get an Xbox? [00:19:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:19:15] Speaker A: If you're listening, I want an Xbox. I'm just kidding. I would probably never even turn it on. Yeah. But I think just from a culture point of view, culturally, we have been told that Christmas is about getting gifts. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Send a letter to Santa Claus and tell him what you want. [00:19:35] Speaker B: So why is it so easy for us as Christians believing sold out followers of Jesus? [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Why is it so easy for us to allow culture to dictate to us? [00:19:50] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know. I can only speak for myself and I think, you know, to some extent, maybe a fear of rocking a boat. I don't want to say rocking the boat, but like, I think about my grandkids. Right. It'd be easy for me to say, I'm not going to get you any crappy presents because, you know, I'M going to give you something I don't know. Right. I'm not going to. I'm not going to spoil your rotten this year. [00:20:18] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:20:19] Speaker A: You're not going to get 50 million toys. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:23] Speaker A: But then I think there's a part of me that's afraid of what? Are they going to feel that. Are they going to feel less than. They're going to feel that I care less. Feel that. [00:20:36] Speaker B: So the standard that you've set for yourself, in their eyes, you don't want to deflate. Yeah, I get it. I understand that. I understand that. [00:20:45] Speaker A: I took a different approach this year for them. [00:20:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:48] Speaker A: I can say it now because it's not Christmas Day yet. Right, right. Well, we're recording it, but it will air on Christmas and they probably wouldn't listen to it anyways because less than 10 years old, who wants to hear. [00:21:00] Speaker B: A bunch of old guys talking about Christmas? [00:21:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Seriously. But, you know, so this year I decided instead of like getting you a bunch of toys and stuff, I bought them a family pass to the zoo for a year. [00:21:12] Speaker B: Oh, that's cool. [00:21:13] Speaker A: Right? [00:21:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:14] Speaker A: So for a year, as much as they want to go have family time. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:21:19] Speaker A: They can go have family time. [00:21:21] Speaker B: See, that's cool. [00:21:21] Speaker A: Right? [00:21:22] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:21:22] Speaker A: Instead of just like, here's a toy you're gonna play with twice. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Right. And then the batteries will go dead. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Or you'll break it or. [00:21:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:29] Speaker A: Have some. Somebody else's toy was better. [00:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I get it. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So I tried to take a different approach this year. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Mm. [00:21:37] Speaker A: Well, Linda and I tried. I shouldn't say hi. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And the. Having an approach like that, and that's something that, that we've wanted to kind of. Not. Not that we don't want to celebrate, you know, with family and things like that, you know, on Christmas Day. But we've taken the approach too, of I want to get you something, you know, that's meaningful, that can combine family and, you know, we've. We've taken that approach as well. One of the other things that we have done instead of just going stupid, crazy and elaborate on Christmas is we celebrate birthdays more. [00:22:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:20] Speaker B: You know, we make a big deal out of a birthday. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great idea. [00:22:24] Speaker B: And instead it's. It's opened up some. Some I don't want. It's opened up some. Some conversations and some things with our children to be able to, you know, because going to, you know, my family, her family, you know, and then all the kids have in laws and you Know, and. And then, you know, and your sons. [00:22:54] Speaker A: Are going to their wife's family. Right? [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Your family's like, we're going to hers. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And. And so, you know, trying to get. Especially when the kids are spread out all over the country. [00:23:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:07] Speaker B: You know, from, you know, Fort Knox to Dallas to Arkansas, you know, to Herman. And so getting everybody together at one time, it's just. It's maniacal almost, you know, so what we have decided to do is it's better to go ahead and just celebrate birthdays, you know, and now I'm not saying that I'm not buying any Christmas presents, but I didn't buy any Christmas presents this year. But, you know, what I'm saying is we've decided to focus more on birthdays and, you know, sentimental days, graduation and things like that. It's. It's. It's easier that way for us not to buy into the whole crazy time at Christmas. [00:23:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:54] Speaker B: You know, and traffic, you know, up until this time of year has been, you know, fairly mild. And then it's all sudden, you know, all the idiots are out shopping. [00:24:07] Speaker A: I'll tell you, last Saturday, week ago, Linda was like, I need to run to Opry Mills. Will you go with me? [00:24:15] Speaker B: No. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Of course I didn't say no. [00:24:19] Speaker B: I know you wouldn't have, but that would have been what was going on in my head. No, no, no. Okay, honey, I'll go. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Well, I. I said, sure. You do realize what time of year it is, right? [00:24:28] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker A: Well, I really need to run down there. It's like 40 minutes. Just getting in the park. Love. Stupid. [00:24:37] Speaker B: It's crazy. It's crazy. [00:24:39] Speaker A: You know, we. We should talk a little bit about, you know, Jesus coming the way he did. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:24:51] Speaker A: Right. In a manger. Right. In a barn. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:57] Speaker A: With animals. Right in the mud. [00:25:00] Speaker B: Yep. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Right. Nothing but. [00:25:04] Speaker B: Well, let's also talk about some of the stigma that they faced in coming into this. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:13] Speaker B: Okay. So Joseph and Mary are just engaged. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:19] Speaker B: They're not married yet. [00:25:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:21] Speaker B: She is betrothed to him. In other words, she has promised that I will marry you. [00:25:26] Speaker A: That's right. [00:25:27] Speaker B: And there they come into Bethlehem and she's waddling with a watermelon, basically. And so the stigma of. Back at this time. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Of how did your fiance get pregnant? If you guys are saying that you've never had relations. [00:25:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:50] Speaker B: You know, so the. The whole. The whole attitude towards them that put them, you know, in a barn. In a manger. [00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:01] Speaker B: In a feeding trough, basically. You know, and nativity scenes are a euphemism for the way that actually was. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:12] Speaker B: You know, and here you have a young teenage girl who has no idea of what's going to happen, first of all, no idea of what the impact as well, that this birth is about to have. I mean, she. She'd been told. But until you really experience it. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Right. [00:26:38] Speaker B: You know, and the way that they're being viewed. And some scholars have even said that the reason they were there was. Reason they were in a barn in a manger was maybe because of the stigma with her being pregnant and unwed, you know, and the immaculate conception that, you know, so in talking about that and realizing what's going on here, it changes the whole aspect of the look of the manger. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:17] Speaker B: And, you know, the nativity scene with them being all cozy and, you know, in this little swaddling cloth. And that's not. It's nowhere close. No, it's nowhere close. [00:27:28] Speaker A: No. It was a dirty, filthy place for the pigs. [00:27:32] Speaker B: Well, for the cows. [00:27:33] Speaker A: Well, the cows, you know, all of them sheep. [00:27:36] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:27:37] Speaker A: It's where they went to get out of the weather. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Right, Right. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Tools for all the animals. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:42] Speaker A: You know. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah. But, hey, this was no, you know, four sixes ranch barn. [00:27:47] Speaker A: No. [00:27:48] Speaker B: You know, it's not like anything you would see on Yellowstone. [00:27:51] Speaker A: Not even for a second. [00:27:52] Speaker B: No. [00:27:53] Speaker A: But I think, you know, there's a lot to be said about, you know, look, Jesus is the Messiah. He is God. [00:28:02] Speaker B: No, absolutely. [00:28:04] Speaker A: And regardless of all the scenarios where some theologians will say, wow, because she was pregnant or because of this, he could have done something different. [00:28:17] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:28:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:28:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:20] Speaker A: He could have made it so he had someplace to stay. Sure. But if you think of all the things that transpired with his father, Joseph, who wasn't his father, but he was his earthly father. [00:28:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Being from there. Caesar calling the census. [00:28:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:41] Speaker A: To increase taxes. How many people do I got so I can pay more so I know how many people are going to pay me taxes? [00:28:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:47] Speaker A: That's what a census was for. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Sure. [00:28:49] Speaker A: I don't know the scripture. Scripture says that. But that's what they're still for today. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:28:53] Speaker A: Right. How many people were there so I can know how much tax revenue I should expect. Right? [00:28:59] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [00:29:00] Speaker A: And. And the prophecy of he's going to come from the house of David, which is Joseph slime. [00:29:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:09] Speaker A: But he was still God. He could have made. Okay, we're going to go to the inn and there's going to be a place. And I'm. Right. So when I think about it, I think about how humble and how Christ had to come at the lowest form. [00:29:32] Speaker B: The lowest of the low. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Right. For us. So when we think about the birth of Christ, we're celebrating God coming to the lowest possible form, not the present. I'm going to open. [00:29:57] Speaker B: Right. Not just. Not just the lowest possible form, but from the highest majestic rank. You know? [00:30:05] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. The highest of high. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:08] Speaker A: The almighty. [00:30:09] Speaker B: Right, Right. Perfection. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:14] Speaker B: And so when you. When you discount what that manger scene actually was by making it all cute and cuddly. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:23] Speaker B: And I'm not saying that nativity scenes in gingerbread houses don't need to happen. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Look, I love nativity scenes. [00:30:29] Speaker B: I do, too. [00:30:30] Speaker A: And I would have a whole bunch of them if Linda would let me. She won't, though. I keep asking for them. [00:30:38] Speaker B: Really? [00:30:39] Speaker A: Every year she's like, you got one? It's on the thing. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Do they make gluten free gingerbread? [00:30:44] Speaker A: They make gluten free graham crackers, so maybe, why not? [00:30:49] Speaker B: See, that's what we need to do is just make a gluten free nativity scene for her. [00:30:54] Speaker A: Something, right? [00:30:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah, Something every year I like. Oh, look at that one. That one's pretty. [00:31:02] Speaker B: She won't. She let you have one outside? [00:31:04] Speaker A: Probably not, huh? [00:31:08] Speaker B: You know what? We didn't even put up a Christmas tree this year. [00:31:12] Speaker A: We did not last year, I think, because I don't think we planned on being home. Right. [00:31:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:18] Speaker A: And the kids are not. Grandkids aren't here. Aaron's here. But I think last year he was going to his wife's family up in Bowling Green. [00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:26] Speaker A: I don't remember what we. I think we may have went to Indiana, actually. [00:31:29] Speaker B: I think you did go to Indiana last year for Christmas. [00:31:32] Speaker A: But, you know, we put one up this year and I'm thankful we did. Like, you know, we got the little. My nativity scene's about this big. [00:31:39] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Sitting up by the tv. [00:31:41] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:31:42] Speaker A: But, you know, her reason for it is, you know, my mother in law has the entire set of willow. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Really? [00:31:51] Speaker A: The whole thing. It takes up more than this table. [00:31:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:54] Speaker A: Like the. The grass, the trees. Everything that willow has ever done for the nativity scene, she has. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Wow. [00:32:01] Speaker A: And she's like, well, someday maybe you'll get that. [00:32:05] Speaker B: Huh? Well, mother in law needs to go ahead and make the decision to move. [00:32:12] Speaker A: She does. [00:32:13] Speaker B: Come on. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Move on. Move here. She's ready to go home. [00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So getting back to where we were with the birth of Christ, there's some of the semantics that are going on here as well. The trip that Joseph and Mary had to take. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Was about 80 miles. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:36] Speaker B: Okay. So from beginning. So. So getting back to some of the things that were, you know, going on with some of the things that were going around this, we lose sight of some of the. Not just the stigmas, but the pressures that they had to go through. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Right. So they come. Come four census. It's about an 80 mile trip. She's obviously super pregnant. Super pregnant. [00:33:08] Speaker A: About to bust on the back of a donkey. [00:33:11] Speaker B: On the back of a donkey. Right, right. [00:33:13] Speaker A: And because she's so pregnant. He's walking. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:16] Speaker A: He's walking 80 miles. [00:33:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:18] Speaker A: They're not taking turns. [00:33:20] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. Not at all. And. And so I was going to say this. I remember in my boy Scout years, I got to go to Philmont, which is a high adventure scouting post out in Cimarron, New Mexico. I was 14. Right. We hiked. I think it was 123. It might have been 100 cameras. 123 or 128, but it was 120 plus miles in 10 days. [00:33:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:44] Speaker B: Okay. And I was 14. I wasn't trying to. We led donkeys for two days. Right. There was two days. Well, they were burros. Not really donkeys, but burros. [00:33:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:55] Speaker B: So I remember on those days. We didn't hike as many miles those days as we did other days because we were trying to take care of the burrows at the same time. My point is this. 80 miles with a pregnant wife. Our pregnant wife to be. And a donkey and walking through some of the things that they were having to walk through with social stigmas and other things that were going on at the time. I don't know that I've ever thought about putting myself in the place of what Joseph was going through at that time. [00:34:39] Speaker A: It's a. It's a hard thing to imagine because you're doing this for a woman that is betrothed to you, that is pregnant. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Yep. [00:34:48] Speaker A: And it's not yours. [00:34:49] Speaker B: And it's not yours. [00:34:51] Speaker A: And I get it. An angel came to him and said, everything's gonna be okay. But. But the perception from everybody who sees you. Mm. The condemnation. [00:35:01] Speaker B: Yep. And the humanity of what myself would be thinking of, like, this is worse than an embarrassment. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:09] Speaker B: You know, and so I look at the prophecy in the scripture and the way that Joseph was. Was told that it was going to happen the way that Mary was told it's going to happen. And then, you know, Mary rejoiced. [00:35:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:29] Speaker B: And then the birth of Christ. And I think about all those things and I try to compartmentalize the differences in the way that my fleshly self would look at that not only as putting myself in Joseph's place, but putting myself in the people's place that are around us at the census or on the way. [00:35:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:54] Speaker B: You know, on this journey, would I be. Would I be understanding? Would I be. Or would I be one of the ones that were taking potshots? [00:36:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I think naturally we want to be like, oh, yeah, I would have understood. [00:36:13] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:36:15] Speaker A: But really. [00:36:18] Speaker B: And. And that's that. That's my point. [00:36:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:21] Speaker B: So everything that's going on around this with all the people who are probably, you know, how you gonna marry that woman and your baby, you know, and. And all of the shame that would have been showered on them and making an 80 mile trip knowing how hard, you know, me understanding. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:48] Speaker B: How sometimes difficult it is to get a burro or a donkey to continue in the same direction for 80 miles. And I think about how all of this gets neatly tucked into this little box of a nativity scene with a sweet little red bow tied on top of it. And it wasn't a silent night. Here's a young lady who is going through the pains of childbirth. She's going through the fear of being in not only a strange place, but a dirty place. And we try to take the reality out of it, to put our own thrust of reality into it or the thrust of imagination into it, to make it all look neat and tidy and sing this little Christmas carol about silent Night. And it was loud. There was lots of. She's probably shrieking in terror and in pain. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And because she's this woman that got pregnant that wasn't by her husband, how many people were willing to come help her? [00:38:08] Speaker B: That's. That was my next thing. That's my next thing, you know. And what does Joseph know about birthing a child? [00:38:18] Speaker A: Nothing. [00:38:19] Speaker B: They're both young, you know, so how do you get. How do you get away from what the importance of the story is without seeing all the background information that's going on. To realize that coming from the highest of Majesties, the most beautiful place ever in a utopia. [00:38:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:40] Speaker B: To come into being forced into a world of sin in a dirty trough with screams going on around you. You know, the impact that this has on me as a Christian and realizing what he came from to what he came to and then realizing what he's going back to. But what he endured in the middle. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Of. [00:39:13] Speaker B: When I start to complain because things got stupid at my job 15 minutes before I come over here to record podcast. [00:39:21] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:21] Speaker B: How insignificant. [00:39:25] Speaker A: I think we drastically overlook so many aspects like you've just talked about. Right. Because something else is going on. [00:39:36] Speaker B: Right? [00:39:37] Speaker A: Right. And I love the picture of him coming to the lowest, dirtiest place there is, the king of kings, King of kings going to the lowest, dirtiest place there is to be born. And as Christians, it's kind of a redundant question because you and I both already do these things, but why aren't Christians going to the lowest, dirtiest places to pick people up good enough for Christ to come into this world in one of the dirtiest places, but we can't stop our car to help somebody? Well, we talk about what we should be celebrating at Christmas and how we should be celebrating that it's not just one day a year. [00:40:47] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. That needs to be 365. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:54] Speaker B: It's funny that you brought that up because there's. There's a conversation, it's like a little sub thread or something that's going on on a Facebook page called Hip Gallatin. And there is a guy that's living behind a fast food restaurant there. And, you know, a lot of people are asking about him, you know, and bringing food and things like that. And, you know, somebody brought a sleeping bag and somebody brought, you know, some winter clothes and some, you know, like hot hands, the little hot pocket things, hot hand things, hand warmer stuff. And, you know, everybody's trying to pitch in for this. Here's my point with it. I never heard of this guy being behind this restaurant, a fast food place in Gallatin until the holidays come in. My point is how many times do we go to those low places for the recognition instead of what we're called to do? How many times can we look at, in history, in my life, in your life and anybody else's life, have we done this for the wrong reasons? And you can wrap all that up into why are you celebrating Christmas without understanding that the birth of Christ is so that we will realize our call on our lives to go to the lowest of lows, not neglecting the high places either. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Well, yeah, absolutely. [00:42:38] Speaker B: But to go to these places without splendor, without fanfare, without hoopla, without pictures being made, without, you know, look what I did, you know, behind the fast food restaurant in Gallatin, you know, I did all these things. Why do we get so rad? There is. There is a country music star. He's not really done anything In a long time. I respect this guy. [00:43:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:43:09] Speaker B: His name is Tracy Lawrence. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:43:12] Speaker B: What I respect about Tracy Lawrence is he goes to the mission, fries turkeys, serves food, and there's never a picture taken of him there. He won't allow it. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Never on social media. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Never. Right. But you have other people, local artists in Nashville who are big names that will literally pull up, jump out of their limo, stand beside the guys that are frying turkeys, point to them like this, have pictures taken of them, jump back in the limo, post it up on Facebook, and everybody's like, thank you so much, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, for, you know, helping out our Nashville homeless. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah, no, no. [00:43:57] Speaker B: I feel like. I feel like Tracy Lawrence. If you ever hear this, I feel like you get it. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. [00:44:06] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:07] Speaker B: You know, and we, we overlook so many things too many times to get glory for ourselves. [00:44:17] Speaker A: And he would probably be upset that we just said he did that. He would. Because it's not about that for you. [00:44:22] Speaker B: It's not. It's not. But, and, and I'm not calling him out for that. I'm. I'm saying I respect that about you because it's not about that for you. [00:44:32] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. [00:44:33] Speaker B: You know, why can't. Why can't more believers? Why can't more Christians? Why can't more pastors? Why can't more, you know, church body members, worship leaders? Why can't more people be like that? [00:44:46] Speaker A: Well, God, I wish I had an answer to that. But why? And, you know, it just goes exactly with what you're saying. Right. But why does it take Christmas to call. [00:45:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:03] Speaker A: For somebody to feel like I need to give back? [00:45:05] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Oh, it's the holiday season. I need to, you know, I need to give. [00:45:09] Speaker B: And the salvation bell ringer is out in front of Walmart. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, what, what, what about when it was 110 degrees in June? [00:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Right, right. [00:45:20] Speaker A: Were you given water out? Right, right. Because that. There's no difference. [00:45:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:25] Speaker A: If you say you're doing it because it's Christmas, you miss the whole thing. Right. You miss it. [00:45:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:45:32] Speaker A: Period. [00:45:33] Speaker B: Right. You absolutely do. You absolutely do. [00:45:37] Speaker A: You know, so I say that we should. Everybody should live out that spirit of Christmas, which is about loving everybody. Christ came here to save. His birth, was to save everyone. So if you're gonna live out the Christmas spirit, it's about saving everyone. [00:45:59] Speaker B: It is. [00:46:00] Speaker A: Show everyone kindness. [00:46:02] Speaker B: Yep. [00:46:03] Speaker A: Every day. [00:46:04] Speaker B: Every single day. [00:46:05] Speaker A: Every day. [00:46:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:06] Speaker A: Not the one day a year that you've got a tree up and. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're feeling festive. [00:46:13] Speaker A: And you're feeling festive. [00:46:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker A: When did it become okay to put Christmas lights up in, like, October? That's a whole other subject. [00:46:22] Speaker B: When Walmart started selling Christmas trees in September. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Seriously. I remember. I remember you weren't allowed to do that stuff until after Thanksgiving. [00:46:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker A: And it was like a family tradition. Right after Thanksgiving, you put up true strip. Yeah. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:36] Speaker A: Through the lights and. [00:46:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Now it's like, hey, Halloween's tomorrow. Can we get the tree out? [00:46:42] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. I have a. I make jokes about that a lot, you know, and I'll kid, you know, my brothers in the club or whatever. And to. I. I just think I. I'm all about the Christmas spirit. I am. I like Christmas. [00:47:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:04] Speaker B: You know, but at the same time, why is it that the day after Labor Day, you walk into Walmart or Target or what, and I don't shop at Target, but, you know, you walk into a department store somewhere and they're already, you know, putting Christmas candy out and, you know, that kind of stuff. [00:47:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:23] Speaker B: I don't get it. I don't understand. Yeah, I understand. It's. It's all economical. [00:47:28] Speaker A: It is. All right, so I think the way to land this is. Is just to remind everybody that what happened and the reason. The real reason we celebrate Christmas is not something we should celebrate one day a year. [00:47:43] Speaker B: Exactly. It needs to be a continual celebration. So. And that's going back to where we started with this. Of not knowing the exact date. [00:47:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:54] Speaker B: Makes it even more prominent. [00:47:55] Speaker A: That's absolutely. And it's my challenge. Anybody listening? Right. Christ came to the dirtiest place there. [00:48:03] Speaker B: Is to make you quieter than snow. [00:48:08] Speaker A: What are you waiting for? [00:48:09] Speaker B: Wow. Well, that's a big challenge. It's a big challenge. [00:48:17] Speaker A: What are you waiting for? [00:48:18] Speaker B: What are you waiting for? Hey, folks, we're glad that you're here with us today on this Christmas Day, actually. And so I want to throw this out there. If you're looking for service opportunities, if you need something, drop us a [email protected] if you have a topic for us to discuss, or if you're looking for a local church or however we can help you. But if you're looking for a service opportunity, drop us a line. Helloomadpastor.org we'd love to get back with you and help you out with that. And until next time, we want to remind you to love God and love people.