How forgiveness impacts ministry

[00:00:07] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, it's Rick and Rob. Welcome back to the Nomad Pastor podcast. [00:00:10] Speaker B: How you been? [00:00:11] Speaker A: I've been good. How about you? [00:00:12] Speaker B: I'm pretty good. Pretty good. It's, uh, it's been kind of a weird week. [00:00:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you were just in Panama City, right? [00:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we were down front. Yeah. We had a scraps memorial run. We had a brother that got killed September of 21st. This is our second annual scratch run down there. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Why do you do it the week before Thunder beach? [00:00:35] Speaker B: So there's a couple of reasons that it got put that week, and it has to do with scheduling locally in Panama City, in the area there with different clubs there. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I just wanted, because, like, it's a huge rally. [00:00:49] Speaker B: It is a big rally. [00:00:51] Speaker A: It is amazing for you guys. You're going to have a bunch of people there and you can minister to. [00:00:55] Speaker B: People, but it, the way that it works out. So there was a house down there that scribe was very active in. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:06] Speaker B: And the house opens up to us to have this memorial run there at the house. [00:01:14] Speaker A: That makes sense. [00:01:14] Speaker B: So we have a steak dinner there and. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Like you gotta. It's their schedule. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Right, right. But at the same time, it's also something that, uh, the p for Florida, you know, worked out with them a couple years ago, you know, when they were, when we first started this. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:33] Speaker B: First started this scribes memorial run. [00:01:35] Speaker A: Well, that makes sense. [00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Good. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:38] Speaker A: Everybody got home safe, I assume. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, everybody got home amazingly safe. [00:01:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Notice a bunch of BFCs at Thunder beach right now. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:46] Speaker A: You know, and so there's, I don't know, 14 or 15 of them down there, which is, which is a decent number. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:51] Speaker A: You know, we usually go to the, the, the fall one, so, like, our regional will be thunder beach in the fall. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:01:59] Speaker A: So we'll have a bunch of people there then. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:01] Speaker A: But, you know, several of them went now. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:04] Speaker A: To just, I mean, it's Thunder beach. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Right, yeah. And so we, you know, coming back, we saw a lot of people that were headed down to Thunder beach. You know, we also ran into a bunch of people that were coming back. Once we got, like, north of Birmingham, there was a big event down in the Birmingham area, you know, so got to, got to minister at Bucky's, actually. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Oh, that's even better. Out of Bucky's. Hanging out. Hanging out. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah. That was cool. [00:02:32] Speaker A: All right, so today we're going to talk about forgiveness. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:39] Speaker B: And how it impacts us and impacts ministry. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Sometimes I think we just set my phone down. Sometimes I think we. Forgiveness is one of those words that I feel like is maybe overused. [00:02:56] Speaker B: I think it's overused and under practiced. [00:02:59] Speaker A: I wholeheartedly agree, you know, because there's. [00:03:02] Speaker B: So many things that people want to keep score with. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:06] Speaker B: You know, and keep score on. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think they don't recognize that it doesn't. Well, there's also a part of forgiveness that, like, you know, I have to forgive myself, too. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Sure. Absolutely. [00:03:20] Speaker A: And I think people miss that sometimes. [00:03:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:03:23] Speaker B: I agree. I 100% agree with that. [00:03:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:27] Speaker B: There was a. I've been a part of. [00:03:32] Speaker A: It's. [00:03:33] Speaker B: It's a cross ceremony. That's what it is. And you have all these pieces of paper out on the ground. There's a cross out there on the ground, you know, and there's hammers and nails. And you write down, you know, people that you need to forgive, people that you need to ask forgiveness of. And every single time we remind participants in this particular activity, you know, your name may be the first name that you need to put down there. [00:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:03] Speaker B: You know, you need to. You may need to forgive yourself, you know, to move forward, and you may need to figure out how to make that work. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:14] Speaker B: You know, and we. I'm my biggest critic. You know, I hold myself at a standard or a level that when I don't meet those expectations that I've set for myself, I beat myself up. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:34] Speaker B: You know, and then that becomes an avalanche for everything else that's going on in my life, including on the people that are a part of my life. [00:04:47] Speaker A: I wholeheartedly agree. [00:04:49] Speaker B: And so we take out because, well, I do. Let me. Let me rephrase this and put this in an Ime statement here. This is me ism. Yeah. I hold myself to those standards and those accounts and those expectations, and when I don't reach them, then I start beating myself up, and then it just kind of snowballs into this effect of affecting and effecting everybody else around me because I'm mad at myself. And when that happens, it affects every facet of my life. My work performance, my family performance club, and my church. [00:05:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:38] Speaker B: As well as my ministry. [00:05:41] Speaker A: It's so crazy, you know, that you're spot on. And I think about an instance that I've had recently with work that, you know, it didn't go well. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:52] Speaker A: And it was my fault. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:05:54] Speaker A: I could sit and say, well, this guy didn't do that, or this guy didn't do this. Right. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:05:59] Speaker A: It was my fault. Yeah. Right. And I knew it. I knew last year that it was something that we should have done. I had even sent emails saying, hey, we should start doing this, and I just dropped the ball. [00:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:11] Speaker A: And. And when that was going down, I was. I was beating myself to death. [00:06:17] Speaker B: Because you dropped the ball? [00:06:18] Speaker A: Because I. Well, I just. It's. It's not characteristic of me. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Mm hmm. Right. [00:06:24] Speaker A: I knew better. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:06:25] Speaker A: And I just couldn't forgive myself for doing it, you know, I couldn't forgive myself for missing it and the amount of work that it created for a lot of other people because of me, and I couldn't forgive myself. And that trickled into everything. Linda recognized it. [00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:41] Speaker A: Right, right. The ministry recognized it. And that's kind of what we're talking about. [00:06:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Is that, you know, how it impacts ministry and. And, yeah. And I'm just barely getting to a point that I'm like, okay, it. It's gonna be okay. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:56] Speaker A: For like, four months. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And. And the. The after effects. [00:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:02] Speaker B: Of everything that it leaves in its wake because you didn't forgive yourself. [00:07:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:07:09] Speaker B: Now, understand this, at the same time is that I. I try to evaluate my performance based on what I know I can do. I used to ask my kids all the time, did you leave it all out on the field? [00:07:27] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:07:28] Speaker B: You know, dad, I only did. I only made 80 on this test. Did you do the best that you can? Did you leave it all out on the field? Yeah. Okay, then hold your head high. [00:07:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:39] Speaker B: You know, there's probably some things you didn't know to study for, right? [00:07:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Same thing in a sporting event. You know, I got thrown out at second base. Did you leave it all out on the field? Well, yeah. Okay, right. So I gauge my performance evaluation in my head and learn. Try to learn. Let me. Let me take that back. Try to learn from that mistake. But too many times, I end up not forgiven myself. And it trickles. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker B: And then that trickle becomes a downpour. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Seriously. And, you know, the hard part about it is, like, we don't forgive ourselves. [00:08:23] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:23] Speaker A: But then everybody around me is like. [00:08:25] Speaker B: Look, dude, get over. [00:08:27] Speaker A: It's okay. [00:08:27] Speaker B: Just roll. [00:08:28] Speaker A: It's gonna be okay. [00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:30] Speaker A: No, it ain't gonna be okay. [00:08:32] Speaker B: No, it's not. Yeah. And the attention to detail. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:37] Speaker B: In that. Because you didn't follow up and I'm not picking on you. Don't. [00:08:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:08:41] Speaker B: You know what I'm saying? But because I do it myself. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:43] Speaker B: You know, I've. It ends up happening to me all the time in the lift shop, like, man, why did you glue this now? Why did. Why didn't you go ahead and, you know, stitch your holes and get it? [00:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah. My problem is it was a very expensive mistake. [00:08:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:57] Speaker A: You know. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:58] Speaker A: Like, very expensive. [00:09:01] Speaker B: Well. [00:09:01] Speaker A: And I just beat myself to death for it. But, you know, everybody else is like, yeah, it's gonna be okay, Rick. Don't worry. It's. [00:09:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So I've had to. Let me. I've had. I've got some very good brothers that encourage me. Well, they love. Well, they really do. Right. You know, and there have been some times when, in the past, as the p of the state, when I was the p of the state, you know, that I would miss something and then I would start beating myself up and they would be like, dude, is anybody bleeding? [00:09:37] Speaker A: You're good, right? [00:09:38] Speaker B: You know, we can fix this. We can make this work, you know, so I know where you're coming from with it, but it's still one of those things, like, man, I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have missed that or I should have done this different or, you know, and there have been times when, you know, I've actually beating myself so much that I've come and asked them for their forgiveness, and they're like, what are you talking about? [00:10:03] Speaker A: Right, right. Like, we forgot about that. Yeah, we forgave you six months ago. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, you did do that, didn't you, jerk wad? Man, forget it. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:13] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So let's get into some scripture here, because we've got. We've got a pretty good illustration from the scripture of what we want to talk about today, and we've kind of introed this. So you would go ahead and read it. [00:10:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's going to be Colossians 312 and 13 to start. And maybe I. Maybe I'll read a couple other. I don't. I don't know. So we'll start in verse twelve in the NIv. It says, therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another. If any of you has a grievance against someone, forgive, as the Lord forgave you. And 14 says, and over all these virtues, put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. [00:11:05] Speaker B: So I'm glad you went ahead and read 14, because I was gonna say, go, 14. Go, 14. [00:11:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:10] Speaker B: So I wanna start off with the very first sentence in verse twelve. So as those. And I'm reading from the NASB 1995 version on my phone this time. So as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, I want to go back to those who have been chosen by God, and I want to talk about that for just a minute. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Because there's a lot of. Lot of talk about God's chosen people, especially right now. Especially right now. [00:11:50] Speaker A: We've seen all the stuff going on in college campuses. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Right. Right. So I want to kind of clear the air a little bit here as far as God's chosen people, because it's. When God. When God chose me for salvation, Christ died on the cross. [00:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Okay. Christ chose the children of Israel way back in the Moses era. [00:12:28] Speaker A: That's right. [00:12:29] Speaker B: Okay. That's not to say that jewish people are the only ones chosen by God, nor is Paul talking to only jews here. [00:12:40] Speaker A: That's correct. [00:12:41] Speaker B: So to clear the air with this and for everybody to kind of be on the same page that we are here. So as those who have been chosen of God. Chosen of God, meaning those that. Who have taken on Christ in salvation. Right. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:59] Speaker B: Now he goes on to say holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion. So to those people. So as those who have been chosen by God, holy and beloved, where is perfection in that? [00:13:12] Speaker A: Well, there's not. [00:13:13] Speaker B: So why do we beat ourselves up over something that we can't forgive ourselves with? [00:13:21] Speaker A: I think there's this, you know, for lack of a better term, there's this stigma, okay. Of how good we are supposed to be. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Correct. I agree with that. [00:13:35] Speaker A: Right. You know, I think it comes from western or americanized Christianity that we're supposed to be these amazing people. [00:13:45] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Right. And so we're holding us to a standard that we believe we're holding. This is my. My opinion. My opinion is we believe we are holding ourselves to a standard that we think everybody else is holding us to or that other christians are holding us to. [00:14:03] Speaker B: Is that a pipe dream, though? [00:14:05] Speaker A: Well, I think it's unrealistic. [00:14:07] Speaker B: I think so. [00:14:08] Speaker A: It's. It sets yourself up to fail. [00:14:11] Speaker B: Right. I agree. I agree 100%. And here's the aftermarket value of what happens with that. Okay? There are people, and I know this to be true because I've been involved in conversations about it, about how, well, I'm not going to go to church anymore because the church has burned me so bad. What? Church has burned you. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Church didn't burn you. People burned you. [00:14:43] Speaker B: Exactly. Right. So they have decided that I can be a front row Christian from my la z boy, or I can be a front row Christian from my living room couch and not be in fellowship with the brothers and sisters, with the church itself, because I'm mad at them and the things that they've done. So if you get a little more granular with that and even with the people that are claiming that it's something that they're expecting for somebody to be perfect instead of someone striving to be holy. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:27] Speaker B: And understanding the difference in holiness and perfection, we're never called to be perfect. We're called to be holy. If we were called to be perfect, Christ wouldn't have needed to die on the cross. [00:15:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker B: So, in that, and I'm not saying that we need a crutch on us being human failures. What I'm saying is when you allow. When you allow that unforgiveness from someone that has what you deem as hurting you from the church to rule what your spiritual maturity ends up being, then you are the problem. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:16:16] Speaker B: You are what that stigma of the american christian walk gets called. Hypocritical. [00:16:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:27] Speaker B: You are the reason that somebody else is going to stumble. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:33] Speaker B: And what does Paul say about that? [00:16:35] Speaker A: Don't be the reason. [00:16:36] Speaker B: Don't be a stumbling block. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Don't be a stumbling block. Don't be the reason. You know, it makes me think about. I read this thing on Facebook and look, I kind of despise Facebook. [00:16:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. [00:16:48] Speaker A: Let's start there. [00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:49] Speaker A: You know, we have our chapter meeting tonight, and I wrote a devotional. It's all about social media. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:16:53] Speaker A: Like, just stop. It's madness. Right? Like, I get it, you know? [00:16:58] Speaker B: But anyway, can I come to your chapter? Maybe? [00:17:01] Speaker A: You're more than welcome. But I read this thing on Facebook and I copied it, and it's not super long. I want to read it. Cause I think we missed it. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I. If I knew who wrote this, I would give him credit, but it wasn't me. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:16] Speaker A: But I just don't know who wrote it. [00:17:17] Speaker B: Okay. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Right. So it said, one night in a church service, a young woman felt the tug of God at heart. She responded to God's call and accepted Jesus as our lord and savior. This woman had a kind of past, right? Alcohol, drugs, prostitution. But the change in her heart was evident. She started going to church. I'm going to paraphrase a lot of this, right? She started going to church, started teaching young children, and she actually caught the eye of the pastor's son. [00:17:42] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [00:17:43] Speaker A: Right. And, you know, they started dating, fell in love, started making wedding plans. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Uh huh. [00:17:49] Speaker A: The congregation wasn't about it. [00:17:51] Speaker B: Uh oh. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Half of them were like, this is awesome. And the other half of them was like, she is not good enough for the pastor's son. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Oh, my. [00:18:00] Speaker A: So they had a meeting, like, big church meeting. They're arguing and fighting. The pastor's son stands and she starts crying. People are calling her names, right? Pastor's son stands up and he says, my fiance's past is not what's on trial here. What you are questioning is the ability of the blood of Jesus to wash away sin. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Hello? [00:18:22] Speaker A: Says today you will put the blood of Jesus on trial. So does it wash away sin or not? [00:18:27] Speaker B: Amen. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Says the whole church began to cry. [00:18:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Too often we, as christians, we bring up the past of people. [00:18:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:35] Speaker A: Well, that's part of this forgiveness. [00:18:37] Speaker B: It is, it is. [00:18:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:38] Speaker B: It is. [00:18:40] Speaker A: I don't know. I didn't plan on reading that. But, you know, like I said, I paraphrased it. [00:18:44] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:18:44] Speaker A: But. But that's really what it's about. Is the blood of Christ enough for you to. If it wash away sin, why can't you forgive? [00:18:52] Speaker B: Exactly. Great point. Great question. So how. How do we. How do we continue? Or. Let me ask you this way. Cause, I mean, you know what I'm fixing. [00:19:07] Speaker A: I know, I know. [00:19:08] Speaker B: So why do we continue to rationalize our feelings over holding forgiveness, either to someone, for someone, or even for ourself, instead of allowing the blood of Christ to make that forgiveness for us? [00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah. I think for me personally, I struggle with forgiving myself because there's plenty. I just don't feel worthy. [00:19:40] Speaker B: Forgiving yourself. Right. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Forgiving myself. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay. [00:19:45] Speaker A: When I. When I'm beating myself up about whatever it may be, that voice, and it's the devil. Right. Let's just start there. But that voice is like, you ain't worth it. [00:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:58] Speaker A: You don't deserve that. [00:19:59] Speaker B: You're gonna screw up again. [00:20:00] Speaker A: You. This is the second time. [00:20:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:03] Speaker A: This is the 10th time. This is the 200th time that you've done the same thing. [00:20:07] Speaker B: I told you. [00:20:09] Speaker A: Why don't you just give in? You ain't good enough. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:20:13] Speaker A: So that's how it is for me personally when I'm thinking about myself. Right. When I struggle with forgiving myself, especially if it's something I've done more than once. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And you know that definition of insanity? [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:29] Speaker B: You know, over an expected results. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Right. And so to me, that comes into my mind like, you keep doing the same things, dummy. [00:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Why are you expecting different results? Here's an idea. Stop doing the same thing. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Well, and that's. Right. That's what we're all striving to do. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Right. We all strive to do it. We're all sinners. We all fall short. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:56] Speaker A: And there's a lot of things that I used to do that I don't do anymore. [00:21:00] Speaker B: Thank God. [00:21:01] Speaker A: Right? [00:21:01] Speaker B: Praise God. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Praise God for that. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Praise God. [00:21:05] Speaker A: You know, but it's little things. [00:21:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:07] Speaker A: You know, it's little things, but. [00:21:09] Speaker B: But withholding forgiveness of yourself or for others. [00:21:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Right. How does that. So let's shift gears a little bit and put this into practicum, okay? Holding forgiveness and the. The devastating results, literally, that it has on ministry. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:35] Speaker B: How can we. And this is something that I have had to struggle with in the past, especially coming from an addictive behavioral background. Right. And the things that I allowed myself, and I say allowed myself to bind me up to keep me in addiction, once I realized that those things needed to be forgiven and that I needed to forgive myself of those things, there is a spiritual momentum change. For instance, for years, I felt inadequate in my own flesh and blood family with my dad, my mom, my brother. And that inadequacy I felt was because I thought that my brother was favored over me. So in my mind, I'm like, well, I'm not good enough. Anyway, screw it. [00:22:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Let's go party. [00:22:54] Speaker B: Let's. Let's hit it. You know what I mean? [00:22:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:22:57] Speaker B: And so when I started into recovery and I could string clean time together, and I would work, like, three steps in aa or na and then go, I got this. I can do this. [00:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Two weeks later, I'm drinking and drugging again. [00:23:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:14] Speaker B: Right. When I realized that recovery was what I needed, not clean time is what I needed, I had to go back and talk about in my mind, to me. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:28] Speaker B: And to my sponsor, the things that I was holding on to that I could not let go of and why I could not let go of them. Once I realized why I could not let go of them, I realized I'm a big dummy. And those things that I was holding on to needed to be let go of. [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you think sometimes we grind an ax? [00:23:53] Speaker B: I do. [00:23:54] Speaker A: You know, and why, like, why do we gotta grind that axe? Are we gonna get something out of it? [00:24:01] Speaker B: Goat. Me ism. And I know we kid about that because we hang out with goat a lot. Yo. [00:24:10] Speaker A: You know, I'm gonna see him tonight. We saw him this morning. [00:24:12] Speaker B: We saw him this morning. Right, but. But that's the thing. We won't let go of ourselves. We want our agenda to be number one above everything else that everybody. I can't do that. Why? It don't make me happy. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker B: You don't catch this cat doing that, you know, when the whole thing needs to be serviced to others. [00:24:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Jesus washed Judas's feet knowing. Knowing what was going to happen. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Knowing. [00:24:44] Speaker B: And he loved him anyway. [00:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Scripture said he had compassion on him. [00:24:48] Speaker A: What do you. How do you deal with the people who say, well, I'm not Jesus. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Well, what you need to try to be. [00:24:55] Speaker A: No, no, I agree. But, you know, I've had a lot of people, I've heard people say, you know, when I'm like, look, you gotta forgive. Right. Jesus forgave Judas. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah, but I'm not Jesus. [00:25:04] Speaker A: Well, I'm not Jesus. Right. But you're supposed to try to be, right, 1% not try to be Jesus. But you're supposed to try to be 1% better every day. [00:25:13] Speaker B: Well, the same thing that Jesus told Peter when he said, how many times do we forgive? Seven times 77. Being an infinite number. Perfection. Perfect number times an infinite number. To infinity and beyond. Exactly. [00:25:31] Speaker A: Not the way it works. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Right. So you don't have a choice in it if you claim to be a follower of Jesus. And I don't care if you're Jesus or not. Yeah, well, you're not Jesus. You may be Jesus, but the bottom line is you're supposed to forgive. It's not your choice not to. [00:25:53] Speaker A: That's the. That's the big one. Right. It's not your choice not to forgive. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Right. It's what you're commanded to do. So let's. You. Are you. Are you turning to Matthew? [00:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So let's talk about how it affects ministry in that. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Well, which. Matthew are we going to? [00:26:12] Speaker B: Matthew six. [00:26:13] Speaker A: I was going to Matthew. 1818. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good. [00:26:16] Speaker A: 118 21. Matthew. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Matthew. 1821. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Just takes me a second to get there because, you know, it's an actual Bible. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Pages are turning here. [00:26:28] Speaker A: Matthew 18. What did I say? 21 21. [00:26:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Matthew 1820. [00:26:32] Speaker A: 118 21. It's the parable of the unmerciful servant. Oh, right. [00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker A: And this. And what sort of preface. Right. What it's talking about is like, don't keep track of how many times. Right. You know, and it says, then Peter came to Jesus and asked the Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brothers and sisters who sinned against me up to seven times. Jesus answered, I tell you, not seven times, but 777 times. [00:27:01] Speaker B: That's what the Niv says. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like the king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began a settlement, a man who owed him 10,000 bags of gold was brought to him. You know? And since he was able to pay, the master ordered. So he's talking about, like, debt and everything else. But that's the scripture, that he's like, not seven. [00:27:22] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:23] Speaker A: Seven times 77. [00:27:24] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:27:25] Speaker A: Three perfect numbers. [00:27:27] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And so when we. When we don't do that, when we don't forgive, whether it's ourselves or somebody else. [00:27:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:39] Speaker B: The effect that it has because of people being a witness to it. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:44] Speaker B: And. And look, it doesn't matter if I'm withholding forgiveness from myself or from you or anybody else, somebody's gonna recognize it. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the world we live in. Well, the world we minister in, which is the world we live in, but the world we minister in, there's always somebody watching. [00:28:12] Speaker B: Always. [00:28:13] Speaker A: Right, right. They're watching to see what. What we do, how we react. Right. How we deal with people or deal with situations. Right. And if we're not forgiving, if we're putting somebody on blast behind their back, if we're talking bad about people, they're gonna be like, really? You're a Christian, right? [00:28:38] Speaker B: Right. Why should I listen to what you have to say? [00:28:41] Speaker A: Really? [00:28:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:42] Speaker A: Like, we were. You know, we were at a house last Saturday. [00:28:46] Speaker B: Okay, I know. [00:28:47] Speaker A: Right. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:50] Speaker A: And, you know, one of the guys. Well, we were at a house. We were at a house Friday and at a house Saturday, and one of the guys that was at the house both nights, we just started talking to goat and I. And he's like, man, I really need to go to church with you. And I'm like, come on. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:08] Speaker A: You know. Now, of course, we didn't start that conversation of. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:29:12] Speaker A: But he opened it up. So now every time I see him, I got a right to say. [00:29:15] Speaker B: Right. You said exactly that, season planet. And I bet I know who that was. [00:29:20] Speaker A: But I'll tell you offline, you'd be surprised. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Really? [00:29:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:24] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:27] Speaker A: But if he didn't see us walking out, what we talk about, if he didn't see us living the life the way Christ has called us to live, he would have never said that. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Right, right. Exactly, exactly. And when that gets witnessed in our world, in the life that we live in, minister in, it has the pebble in the pond ripple effect. Because other people are going to witness what that one person brought to light as a witness. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:30:09] Speaker B: Right. Absolutely. And for those who are listening that don't understand motorcycle club life, the family unit is not just about the address that you live in. [00:30:25] Speaker A: Oh, not even close. [00:30:28] Speaker B: It has to do with the entire club. Yeah, you know, I have, bro, I was talking to somebody earlier today, talking to a prospect, as a matter of fact, and he was trying to kind of figure out how the whole family dynamic works, you know, in the club, and why some of the wives are not as apt to be encouraging and involving and encouraging their husbands to be involved in what the crew life is. And I said, let me tell you why. I said the minute that her kids, the one that's not wanting to be involved, realizes that you are Uncle Mike, things change. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:13] Speaker B: When I became Uncle Batman, the whole dynamic of the family changed. [00:31:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:24] Speaker B: And so when we who are involved in ministry, in what the ministry we're involved in, when they see us even acting in that family manner and they see us walking the way that we should, then it opens the door for them and their entire club family. [00:31:54] Speaker A: That's right. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Their entire club family. [00:31:57] Speaker A: That's right. [00:31:58] Speaker B: So if we're withholding forgiveness on ourself, it's gonna be evident in our attitude. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:04] Speaker B: If we're withholding forgiveness for someone that we know, it's gonna be evident in our attitude, even if they don't know the person or the situation. [00:32:15] Speaker A: That's right. [00:32:16] Speaker B: It's gonna be evident in our church life because we're not going to be as apt to go serve with our church. It's going to be active. It's going to be evident in every. It's going to. It's going to mess up our work, production. [00:32:33] Speaker A: It's in everything we do. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Everything that we do. So withholding that forgiveness, it's like drinking poison and waiting for somebody else to die. It's a great way to put it, you know? And it just doesn't work. [00:32:51] Speaker A: No, it doesn't. [00:32:52] Speaker B: It doesn't work. [00:32:54] Speaker A: Well, I think, one, it's been a great conversation. [00:32:58] Speaker B: I've loved it. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Right. And the way I would end this, is, is the blood of Christ sufficient to wash away your sin? [00:33:07] Speaker B: Wow. [00:33:08] Speaker A: And if it is. Yeah, I believe it is. [00:33:10] Speaker B: I 100% believe that it is. [00:33:13] Speaker A: So if it is, how large is your ego to not forgive yourself? How large is your ego to not forgive somebody else? [00:33:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:26] Speaker A: Because at this stage where we're at, right. The blood of Christ is powerful enough to wash away sin. So for you to not forgive. It's about ego. That's my opinion. [00:33:38] Speaker B: That's 100%. I agree. I agree. Great conversation. Yeah, there has been, you know, we've been doing this for a while. [00:33:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:51] Speaker B: You know, and we talk a lot about. This has been a great conversation. It's been a good podcast. Yeah, we do. But truly, I think that every conversation that we've tackled, I don't think we have. I don't think we have done any injustice to. [00:34:11] Speaker A: I don't think so. [00:34:12] Speaker B: And I think this is one that strengthens both of us. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree with that as well. [00:34:20] Speaker B: As the conversation unfolded can help someone else who's struggling with it. [00:34:27] Speaker A: Amen to that. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So, folks, we're glad that you joined us today. We want to encourage you at the same time that if there is an issue of unforgiveness in your life that you need help with and you would like for us to help you, please reach out to [email protected]. Dot. We'll get right back with you. And hit us up on every single platform. We're on YouTube as well. [00:34:56] Speaker A: It's crazy. [00:34:57] Speaker B: It is crazy. And until next time, folks, want to remind you to love God and love people.