Leadership and Influence

[00:00:09] Speaker A: Everybody, it's Rick and Rob. Welcome back to the Nomad Pastor podcast. [00:00:12] Speaker B: It's nasty day today. [00:00:14] Speaker A: It is. It's not as bad as it could have. [00:00:17] Speaker B: No, no, it's not. But it's still one of those days where you look and go, yeah, it. [00:00:23] Speaker A: Started like raining and sleeping and then freezing rain last night. [00:00:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And then turned to snow when I took the dogs out this morning at. I guess it was about 545, something like that. Yeah, it was snowing. Huge, big flakes. And it was coming down hard. When we started our Bible study call this morning, it was big flakes this morning. [00:00:49] Speaker A: I looked out the window, I was like, holy cow. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it was big. [00:00:52] Speaker A: What's going on with this? Right. [00:00:54] Speaker B: And then it just kind of misted snow for a little while. Just kind of dusted parking lots and stuff like that. [00:01:00] Speaker A: That's crazy. [00:01:01] Speaker B: It is. But it's going to get frigid tonight. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Yeah, well, maybe the weather, like before we started this, we had this little minor technical glitch. We had to actually switch out a new computer, and luckily it had the same hard drive as the old one, so we didn't miss anything. But that's how it works. Right. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Where can you find computer network guys? [00:01:23] Speaker A: I don't know, but I think that's how it works for me. Is that when God comes at me? Usually it's technology. [00:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:29] Speaker A: I'm just going to break it. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't talk. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Nobody can hear you. Or I shouldn't say, when the devil comes at me. Not when God comes at me. Let me correct myself. People are going to go, what is he talking about? [00:01:42] Speaker B: But at the same time, it's kind of. God will test us. [00:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah, he'll see. Are you going to give up? [00:01:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:49] Speaker A: Because that was a question. We're like, well, we might not be able to do it well. [00:01:54] Speaker B: So today is kind of an in between day for Rick and I. This is not the normal day that we. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Right, that's right. So I had everything kind of taken apart because I'm getting ready for other meetings. Right. [00:02:06] Speaker B: And expecting us to be together next week. [00:02:08] Speaker A: That's right. [00:02:09] Speaker B: And I threw a kink in the chain. [00:02:10] Speaker A: But it's a good kink. It's always good. [00:02:12] Speaker B: It is. It really is. [00:02:14] Speaker A: All right, so you got a topic today? [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to talk about leadership and influence. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a great one. [00:02:20] Speaker B: We talked about this quite a bit this morning, and I got some wheels turning in my head and they're not even smoking yet. Good. We're ahead of the curve there. And one of the things that I was reflecting on, especially in my life, after our Bible study call this morning was, who is that guy? That's like Elijah to me, right? Who is that guy? That can be the one that I want to have that double portion of his spirit so that I can be that much better and identified some people along the morning, and I turned that just a little bit more and like, who can I be, elijah for somebody else? [00:03:09] Speaker A: I think that's a big one. That's the influence part, right? [00:03:11] Speaker B: That's the influence part, right. And so through everything that's been kind of going through my head since 630 this morning has been kind of focused into that point of who can I identify as an influential leader in my life personally? And then who can I lead at the same time? Because that's what discipleship is. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Yes, it is. [00:03:35] Speaker B: So when it comes down to, to, and probably still will put a post out to forge brotherhood today about this particular set of scriptures that we're going to talk about, and who is it that you have identified in your life as somebody that you want to emulate in your life other than Christ, that's a spiritual giant. And then how can you be that for somebody else? [00:04:08] Speaker A: There's a lot to unpack there. [00:04:10] Speaker B: There is. And we're going to try to do it in 38 minutes or so or so. [00:04:16] Speaker A: We'll see where it goes. All right, so you got some scripture first? [00:04:19] Speaker B: I do. First of all, let me flip back over here to second kings, chapter two. Hold on. Just had it open, and then I'll close the Bible up. [00:04:30] Speaker A: That's how we roll. [00:04:31] Speaker B: That's how we do it. There is. All right, so second kings, chapter two, verse. Where is it? Right here, verse nine. And when they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, tell me what I can do for you before I am taken from you. This is Elisha's words. He says, let me inherit a double portion of your spirit. Elisha replied, yeah. And so starting with that, I want to talk about the way that we look. I want to kind of do this in phase one, two. And how do, how do we identify people in our lives who can be that mentor for us spiritually, who can be that one in our lives that we can use to disciple us, even those who have been in the faith for a while and those who have walked with the Lord for a while. I find it interesting that even when Saul became Paul, before he went on his first missionary journey, he sat at the feet of the apostles for ten years before he left on first missionary journey. Right. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:44] Speaker B: There were those things that he needed to have formed into him and made clear for his understanding in order to write letters, in order to go on these missionary journeys, in order to instruct churches and instruct us today. [00:06:01] Speaker A: And I also think in order to be comfortable, for Paul to be comfortable holding people accountable. [00:06:10] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:06:11] Speaker A: How are you comfortable holding people accountable to a certain set of standards. [00:06:17] Speaker B: Spiritual standards. Spiritual standards. [00:06:21] Speaker A: If you haven't spent that time yourself. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Sure, exactly. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Right. It's one thing for me to be like, you shouldn't do this, but then I haven't done it myself. So when you think about leadership and influence, you got to be really wise and prayerful about who you choose. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Right. Exactly. Now, I'm not saying that Methuselah type people, methuselah type men, for us, can be the only ones that we can choose for that. [00:06:51] Speaker A: That's right. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Hear me say that, folks. However, somebody, I'm 54. I've lived quite a bit of life in the world. Let's say it like that. [00:07:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Right. But at the same time, I also have enough spiritual grounding, and I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but at the same time, I have enough spiritual grounding and foundation through study of the word to know how to choose somebody. [00:07:27] Speaker A: Yes. [00:07:27] Speaker B: But our topic today is going to be how other people can choose that person. [00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Okay. So in starting that and looking at Elijah and Elisha and the life that these two men led as prophets of God in the Old Testament, Elijah was taken up in a chariot, right. And we talk about how Elijah never died and he was swept up to be with the Lord and then know takes on Elijah's role as a prophet and continues in that for what the Lord is instructing him to do. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:15] Speaker B: I have a firm belief, and I have a stance on this, that when we have somebody that we are mentoring or we have somebody that's mentoring us, that that person that's mentoring us needs to be somebody that has some life, spiritual life experience, but at the same time has the wisdom to go with that, to be able to impart that to me. [00:08:45] Speaker A: I agree. [00:08:46] Speaker B: And then by the same token, the person that chooses me to be that Elijah needs to see in me those qualities and characteristics that give them something that they want. [00:09:04] Speaker A: I agree with. [00:09:08] Speaker B: Not, I'm not a super discipler. You know what I mean? [00:09:15] Speaker A: I do know what you mean when. [00:09:16] Speaker B: You say that I'm not one of the guys, that I'm not a Billy Graham type. Of guy. [00:09:23] Speaker A: I know exactly what you're saying, because sometimes I am. Well, even in our group, this, you know, we're talking about how. Who's that person for? [00:09:32] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:09:33] Speaker A: And people are. Well, you know, Rick or Batman or. I'm uncomfortable with that. [00:09:38] Speaker B: I am, too. Right. [00:09:39] Speaker A: I'm not that guy right now. I respect that. It's humbling that people would look at. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Us and see that in us and see that. Yeah. [00:09:50] Speaker A: Right. It's very humbling for me because just like you just said, I am not Billy Graham. [00:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I'm not. [00:09:56] Speaker A: Right. I don't feel like I'm this. I don't even know the words to describe Billy Graham in my heart. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Mine either. Right. [00:10:07] Speaker A: It's just this larger than life amazing. [00:10:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:10:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Six verses of just as I am. [00:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:15] Speaker B: And I say that in jest, but at the same time, Billy Graham was the kind of guy that look at all the different things that have started and happened because of Billy Graham right. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Now, because of his leadership. [00:10:30] Speaker B: Right. Not to put him on a pedestal. [00:10:33] Speaker A: He would have told you, think about me. [00:10:35] Speaker B: He would have called you down in a heartbeat. [00:10:37] Speaker A: Yeah. He would have been like. [00:10:40] Speaker B: But the heart that drove him to that point is what we should desire to have. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:10:49] Speaker B: So in that, like, what you were saying this morning with guys. Hey, there's several guys on this call and calling out names and the honor of our names being included in that, with guys that have helped them form a firmer, more steady walk with Christ. [00:11:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:13] Speaker B: Is truly humbling. It's an honor to be seen that way. But at the same time, I'm looking at the guys who are modeling for. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Me who are also on that call for me. [00:11:27] Speaker B: Yeah, me, too. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Right. You look at people like. [00:11:32] Speaker B: But the people in our everyday life at the same time, who are that, Elijah? To us. And I was talking with my wife about this, and I was like, hey, what do you think about Mark? And she's like, I love it. The conversation turned into, I'm at a point to where I know that I could never be mentored enough. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:04] Speaker B: And I'm at a point in my life to where I also know that the mentoring that I need needs to be something more mature than just what I can get from. And I don't want to sound condescending in this, but just for what I can get from a pulpit. Oh, I agree with know. [00:12:30] Speaker A: And that's nothing negative. [00:12:32] Speaker B: Pastor. Pastor. [00:12:33] Speaker A: My pastors are amazing. [00:12:34] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:35] Speaker A: Joe is an amazing pastor. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Joe's a great pastor. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Right. My pastor Ryan and pastor Gary at Crossroads. Amazing. [00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And drew the same, you know, but. [00:12:46] Speaker A: You need more than that. And they know that they do. Right. [00:12:49] Speaker B: And they encourage that. [00:12:50] Speaker A: That's right. [00:12:51] Speaker B: That's the spiritual maturity that you see. [00:12:52] Speaker A: You know what's crazy is one of our regional bosses, Mark. You know him? Yeah, I know Mark from Chattanooga. I think. When I was kind of early in my walk with BFC, we were talking about different churches. How do you find the right church? And maybe you and I have talked about this before, but he said the first question he always asks a pastor when he goes to a church is, who's your pastor? Yes. [00:13:19] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:13:20] Speaker A: Because they need. [00:13:21] Speaker B: They needed the same. [00:13:22] Speaker A: They need an Elijah, too. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Who is the Elijah who's influencing? [00:13:27] Speaker B: Right, right. So let's shift. [00:13:30] Speaker A: And don't use the cop out answer of, well, God. [00:13:33] Speaker B: And that hurts. That hurts for a couple of different reasons. The first reason is because. Are you telling me that you're so arrived that you don't need somebody else? [00:13:50] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:51] Speaker B: Or are you telling me that you view control as one of the fruits of the spirit? [00:13:58] Speaker A: Right. I never thought of that. [00:14:02] Speaker B: But truly. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker B: And it's self control, people, not control. [00:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow, that's like a mic drop moment right there. [00:14:12] Speaker B: Well, but that's one of the two things that it tells me. [00:14:19] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, you said, let's shift gears. [00:14:22] Speaker B: Let's shift gears. So let's talk about what you need to look for in somebody to be a mentor. [00:14:28] Speaker A: Okay. [00:14:29] Speaker B: Okay. You got a scripture? [00:14:33] Speaker A: Do you want to do Philippians? [00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah, do Philippians first. [00:14:36] Speaker A: All right, so I think I got it already bookmarked, but Philippians 214 and 1514 and 15. Yeah. So Philippians, chapter two, verses 14, starts with do everything without grumbling or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure children of God without fault in warped and crooked generation. Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky. [00:15:02] Speaker B: So do everything without grumbling or arguing. [00:15:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:06] Speaker B: How many times? All right, I'm going to hit a little personal thing here. Okay. So both of us, for those that don't know, are in the it world. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:22] Speaker B: I'm in networking. Rick is not. He's more in the code side of things and more of the operations. Operations. [00:15:31] Speaker A: Keep it running. [00:15:31] Speaker B: Keep it running sound. [00:15:32] Speaker A: I mean, I kind of do all of it, but. Right, well, I don't actually do anything hands on anymore. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Lucky you. So to do everything without grumbling or arguing. And I work in a very large organization, but I work in an organization that has some very network intelligent people, guys who are my principal engineers, are like, know and maintain that level of Cisco certification. So they know what's going on. They know what's happening. [00:16:20] Speaker A: They better. [00:16:21] Speaker B: Right. And so they tell me something to do. Right. And somebody else comes along and tells me a different or better way to do it. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Air quotes. Better. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Right. Air quotes. Better. And so then I get to grumbling because I know what the best way to do it is. Because it's coming from somebody with experience. It's coming from somebody that is in the know. It's coming from somebody who has put the time in to find out, figure out and look out for the pitfalls and obstacles. Right. And then somebody from the other side comes. So I end up in this grumbling thing. Right. And for those of you who don't know, being in the it world, there is a lot of grumbling. There is a lot of arguing. [00:17:11] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a lot of finger pointing. [00:17:13] Speaker B: There is a lot. So that to follow up with the rest of this scripture here, do everything without grumbling or arguing so that you may become blameless and pure. When we are looking for somebody who should be our mentor or somebody that we want to look for as a mentor, that's the number one thing. The number one thing that I think. [00:17:36] Speaker A: We need to look for is that they don't. [00:17:38] Speaker B: That they don't. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:40] Speaker B: So that they are blameless and pure. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Because at the end of the day, I know I don't. Right. I don't want to sit down with somebody and be like, oh, my God, this is just so horrible. [00:17:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Like, if the conversation we start with is to talk about how horrible things. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Are, that's the wrong conversation. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Is the spirit going to join us? [00:18:07] Speaker B: No. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Right. No, it's not. And the way that we look for. The way that we look for our Elijah, that's the first thing that we should be looking for, is somebody who has enough wherewithal to understand. [00:18:31] Speaker A: Right. [00:18:32] Speaker B: That the grumbling and the arguing does not make somebody be in a mindset to be receptive. [00:18:43] Speaker A: Right. To spiritual maturity, which is the big part of it. Right. [00:18:49] Speaker B: That is the part of it, yeah. It's the biggest part of it. [00:18:56] Speaker A: When you think about that, is there varying levels of grumbling? I'm asking because it's a worldly question. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. As a worldly. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Because I think sometimes people are like, well, it wasn't that bad. It's like minor sin. Minor sin versus major sin. I wasn't really grumbling or I was justified. I didn't read anywhere where it says you're justified. [00:19:32] Speaker B: No. Right. And I don't think there's a difference in grumbling and complaining. I think it's the same thing. [00:19:39] Speaker A: I do, too. [00:19:40] Speaker B: And I think that's why the scripture here says, without grumbling or arguing. [00:19:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Because being not that I didn't complain that much, but still, in your heart. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Where was that intent coming from? [00:20:01] Speaker A: Yeah. That's the key. [00:20:03] Speaker B: Right? [00:20:03] Speaker A: In your heart, where was it coming from? [00:20:05] Speaker B: So to look on and says, so that you may be blameless and pure children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation, I don't want people to look at me and go, well, he's a pretty good dude. That's not going to be a moniker or epitaph. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, let's make sure that we are talking about leadership and influence when we're talking about how do you choose that leader? How do you choose that mentor? The do everything without grumbling and arguing is foundational. But as a leader or as a mentor, if you're listening to this, I want you to make sure, and you recognize that we've said this before, but you may be the only Bible somebody opens. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:57] Speaker A: And so at all times, you need to attempt to not argue, to not grumble, to not complain. There's all these words we can use for grumbling or arguing. [00:21:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:13] Speaker A: But we got to do everything we can to not do that, because. [00:21:19] Speaker B: We. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Got to try to show Christ to people. And that was not what Christ was about. [00:21:25] Speaker B: No, not at all. Not at all. In understanding what we're showing people when we grumble or when we complain or when we argue, that chips away from the purity that we want other people to see in us. [00:21:47] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Now, I'm not advocating for a faux pa character. [00:21:56] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:57] Speaker B: I'm not advocating for somebody to fake it. Be genuine in what you are, but grow in what you are so that you can become to the point of pure and blameless. [00:22:10] Speaker A: That's right. Now, those are just two things. Right. Grumbling. But there's other characters, there's other qualifications for leader. Do you want to read some scripture? [00:22:17] Speaker B: Yeah, go ahead. [00:22:21] Speaker A: First Timothy three. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great one. [00:22:23] Speaker A: Two through five. Do you want to read it? [00:22:25] Speaker B: No, I'm going to go to first Peter. Two in just a second. [00:22:27] Speaker A: All right. I don't have it up yet. First Timothy. Well, I think it says now the overseer is to be above her approach, faithful to his wife. Temperate, self control, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not given to drunkenness, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome. Not a lover of money. He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church? [00:23:06] Speaker B: I want to talk about the very first thing there. [00:23:09] Speaker A: Okay? [00:23:10] Speaker B: What does reproach mean? [00:23:12] Speaker A: Above reproach. What does reproach mean? Like, you don't want to give somebody the ability to question your motive. [00:23:21] Speaker B: Okay, so the dictionary from Oxford language defines reproach this way. To address someone in such a way as to express disapproval or disappointment. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Wait, read that again. [00:23:36] Speaker B: To address someone in such a way as to express disapproval or disappointment. So I had a conversation with somebody right before I left to drive over here. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Okay. [00:23:49] Speaker B: About that scripture specifically. And my thing was about reproach. And reproach is if you're above reproach, in other words, you're above somebody being able to address you, to express that disappointment or that disapproval. Right. For a leader, a mentor, to be above that reproach, things have to be. Things have to be unquestionable. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:33] Speaker B: Motives have to be unquestionable. [00:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:38] Speaker B: Actions have to be unquestionable. And to give somebody cause to question that gives them cause to show that disapproval or disappointment. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:56] Speaker B: So in the life that we lead and in the life of the mentor that we're looking for, we should be living. Because what you read is the qualifications for elders, overseers, shepherds. [00:25:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Leaders of the church. Leaders of the church, right. But every one of us, every single one of us need to be living a life that is above and beyond reproach. [00:25:23] Speaker A: Absolutely right. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Otherwise, our testimony and our witness are both well. [00:25:31] Speaker A: And I think that's why, from a BFC point of view, that's why we're like, you don't do. [00:25:37] Speaker B: Right? [00:25:37] Speaker A: Right. There's things you don't do. There's things you don't do in your cut. There's things that you don't do at a clubhouse. There's rules. You got rules, too, right? [00:25:47] Speaker B: We have rules in forge brotherhood. [00:25:48] Speaker A: But a lot of those rules aren't just about being a good christian or being a good. Right. Some rules are put into place to help you be above reproach. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Right. Exactly. [00:26:01] Speaker A: Like, don't go to a clubhouse alone. Why not? Well, because if you're there by yourself, somebody could say, well, so and so was here doing this. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Engaging in nefarious activity. [00:26:17] Speaker A: That's right. [00:26:21] Speaker B: Some of us, for that very reason, take that a step further so that I take somebody with me to the clubhouse for safety reasons number one, accountability reasons number two. [00:26:38] Speaker A: That's right. [00:26:39] Speaker B: Because I know where I came from and don't want to go back there. [00:26:43] Speaker A: It's an easy place to be. [00:26:45] Speaker B: It is. [00:26:45] Speaker A: And I think the scary part about that, when you think about influence, we haven't talked really about influence yet. No, I mean, we kind of have, but we talked about the influence leaders should have. But the scary thing about that is it's easy if you come from that world, and I'll speak just specifically for my mindset sometimes, and I know that I'm wrong. So I'm going to say this and I'm going to say I know I'm wrong. [00:27:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:27:10] Speaker A: But it's easy to think, man, look at all of the great things I'm doing for the kingdom and for these men in this motorcycle community. Right. What would I be able to do if I was actually a member of the club? [00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Because then I went through the process that I hung around. I prospected for a year or two or three or five or however long it is. I earned my patch. I have today, but I earned that patch and now they have to listen to me. Right? [00:27:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:47] Speaker A: It's the lie. [00:27:48] Speaker B: It is the lie that we buy into. [00:27:50] Speaker A: You and I both know people who have been in ministry and left ministries to join clubs. Right. And it didn't work out great. [00:28:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:02] Speaker A: I'm only going to say it didn't work out great. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:06] Speaker A: We know of stuff that has occurred. Right? [00:28:09] Speaker B: We do. [00:28:10] Speaker A: But it didn't work out great because of the influence. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Right? Now let's flip that, okay. Because we also know men who were. [00:28:18] Speaker A: In those clubs, but they have been in it the whole time. [00:28:24] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:25] Speaker A: And they came to Christ while they were in it. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:31] Speaker A: And now they're running hard trying to just spread the love of Christ to everybody they can. [00:28:37] Speaker B: They are, right. And they're effective. [00:28:40] Speaker A: They knew the influence, let me state it like that. They knew what influence was. [00:28:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:48] Speaker A: If you haven't lived in that world and you just like, oh, I'm going to be in this ministry or this christian club and then you want to go to that other world. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:56] Speaker A: You don't recognize the influence. [00:28:59] Speaker B: You don't. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Right. [00:29:00] Speaker B: You don't. [00:29:01] Speaker A: And so I think that's where people get into trouble. [00:29:04] Speaker B: So I have a very good friend who did that same thing. Like he was a part of a ministry and bought into the. I could be so much more effective if I had this other patch on instead of this patch. [00:29:25] Speaker A: That's right. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Left that ministry to go to that patch and then realized, I have made a grave mistake within a week. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:34] Speaker B: And came back. Right. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Praise God he came back. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Praise God, he came back. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Sometimes they don't. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Sometimes. But the moral of the story was, even though people who had been mentoring him and been walking along beside him tried to tell him what the other side of that fence looked like and what would actually happen when he comes back, here's the cool thing. And here's another quality of a great mentor. To my knowledge, none of those guys said, well, I told you so. [00:30:16] Speaker A: Well, that is the sign of a great mentor. Right. [00:30:19] Speaker B: So there's nothing that will chop you down to size quicker than when somebody comes back and you trying to beat them down. [00:30:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:33] Speaker B: So when you're talking about what to look for in a mentor, let's talk about what you need to be as a mentor. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Amen. [00:30:45] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:46] Speaker A: I think there's also something, and it's kind of in here. Right. I think there are some amazing christian men who in the midst that are mentors to people that in the midst of struggle, give very ungodly advice. [00:31:10] Speaker B: I agree. [00:31:11] Speaker A: And so when you're looking for a mentor, I think another thing would be like, if they give you some advice that does not align with the Bible. [00:31:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:20] Speaker A: You may want to pray about should they be your mentor. [00:31:23] Speaker B: I agree. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Right. I'm not saying walk away from it. Maybe God puts you there to help them. [00:31:29] Speaker B: Maybe. Right. [00:31:31] Speaker A: But I think you should pray about it. [00:31:32] Speaker B: I agree. [00:31:33] Speaker A: And I say that because I've heard a lot of divorce runs rampant nowadays. Right. It does. It's like 50%. I think it's just too easy to get divorced. Right. You've made a commitment to not only your spouse, but a commitment to God. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:49] Speaker A: And I've heard sometimes christian men are like, well, if it's that bad, dude, just get a divorce. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Here's the thing with that. [00:31:58] Speaker A: And I'm like, whoa. [00:31:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Whoa. No, I'm not saying they say that to me. I'm just saying I've heard them say that to other people. Or I've heard people say things like, well, so and so said, I felt really that bad. [00:32:11] Speaker B: Let me ask you a question. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:13] Speaker B: You talked about commitment to God and commitment to each other. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:16] Speaker B: Is there a commitment that's missing there? As a christian couple, shouldn't we recognize the commitment to our church? [00:32:27] Speaker A: But isn't that your commitment to God? [00:32:30] Speaker B: I'm talking about the body, but yeah, it could be. That's your commitment to God. At the same time, however, in a fleshly, in an everyday facet of our lives. Right. [00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:51] Speaker B: We are the church. [00:32:52] Speaker A: We are. It's not a building. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Right. So when we give up on our spouse, we're giving up on God, we're giving up on the spouse, but we're also giving up on the people who want to mentor us and that we're accountable to at the same time in the church. [00:33:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:12] Speaker B: And the service that we brought to our local body. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Yeah. We're letting an influence that is ungodly. [00:33:23] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:33:23] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:33:26] Speaker A: I mean, I'm a firm believer. Look, I love my wife. I have love for her. I'm in love with her. Yeah, but love isn't just a feeling. [00:33:34] Speaker B: No, it's not. It's verb. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Right. Love is a commitment. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. [00:33:37] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:37] Speaker B: It is. [00:33:38] Speaker A: I made this commitment, and because I love you and I love the commitment that we made and I love God. [00:33:44] Speaker B: I'm going to follow it through. [00:33:45] Speaker A: This is how we're going to get through this. We're going to have some highs and lows, speaks and valleys. [00:33:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:50] Speaker A: Right. Every married couple does. It doesn't matter. I think on the outside, people look at my marriage and they're like, I wish I had that. Well, you don't know what know. [00:34:01] Speaker B: We just closed the garage door and guess what? [00:34:05] Speaker A: If you knew what Linda would had to put up with. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Exactly. Or Rebecca. The same thing with know. I've got this new officer's position in the club as a national officer. We prayed about it. We talked about it. We felt like this was the next move. This is where I should go. But the I can't believe you're leaving me all the time is now coming. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Right. Like how long are you going to be? [00:34:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:36] Speaker A: You'll be an hour, you'll be five days. [00:34:38] Speaker B: Yeah. It's going to take you how long to get to Vermont? [00:34:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:34:42] Speaker B: You know what? You know, you got to go where? And then two weeks later, you got to go what? And then three weeks after that, you got to do what? [00:34:52] Speaker A: But we prayed about it. [00:34:53] Speaker B: We did. [00:34:54] Speaker A: And look, that's why I love your wife and my wife is the same way. But because we consulted God first. [00:35:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:05] Speaker A: And we came to an understanding. Based on what God wants. Yes. Not what Batman wants. Not what Rick wants. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Not what Rebecca or Linda wants. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Because we came to an understanding of what God desires. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:35:19] Speaker A: It's okay. Does that mean we're not going to probably have disagreements about it or fight about. [00:35:24] Speaker B: No, no, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. [00:35:26] Speaker A: But at the end of the day, we went to. [00:35:30] Speaker B: You know, Rebecca would love for us to have a picket fence for the grandkids to come play in every Saturday. [00:35:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And you be there for it. [00:35:37] Speaker B: And we be there. I would love that, too. [00:35:40] Speaker A: Me, too. Me, too. [00:35:41] Speaker B: But at the same time, there's this call on my life, and that call is massive. And it's not that I can accomplish great things, but it's that God is using me to accomplish his will. [00:35:59] Speaker A: That's right. [00:36:00] Speaker B: And that's the understanding that she has. [00:36:02] Speaker A: Can I just say, praise God, that where we work, we have leadership that recognizes. [00:36:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Amen. [00:36:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:11] Speaker B: Amen. [00:36:11] Speaker A: Because maybe they wouldn't. Right. And then I would have to look for another place. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Well, yeah. Our leadership, both of us in our jobs. Even though I work at a secular and air quotes place, technically I do, too. But they have this understanding and are at the same time believers in what not only the mission that I'm called to is, but they understand what a calling from God is about. [00:36:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:54] Speaker B: I'm blessed. You're blessed in the way that we can make a phone call and go, oh, I know this is last minute, but they're like, take off, dude. [00:37:02] Speaker A: That's right. In the interest of time, we got to talk about influence. You had some scripture. [00:37:06] Speaker B: All right, so this is the influence scripture that I want to read. And this comes from first Peter, chapter two, verse twelve. Live such good lives among the pagans that, because. Let me start over. Live such good lives among the pagans that though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Live such good lives among the pagans that even though they accuse you of doing wrong, they see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. So that even though they're going to accuse you, even though they're going to maybe falsely accuse you, they're going to see what you do for the Lord and the way that the Lord works in you so that they'll even glorify God. [00:38:03] Speaker A: That's a big one. [00:38:04] Speaker B: So let's talk about pagans for just a minute. Not the MC. [00:38:10] Speaker A: That's right. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Let's talk about pagans. So pagans are still today alive and well as a religion, even. [00:38:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:24] Speaker B: What Peter is referring to here, I think, live among the pagans. Was anyone outside of the Lord outside of a christian life. Right? So pagans are going to be the ones who are looking to tear us down. Pagans are going to be the ones that are trying to find that fault to go. [00:38:54] Speaker A: Ha. [00:38:55] Speaker B: I see it. I told you. [00:38:57] Speaker A: I told you. [00:38:58] Speaker B: I told you. [00:38:59] Speaker A: I knew it. [00:38:59] Speaker B: Right? [00:39:00] Speaker A: I knew it was a matter of. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Time, just a matter of time before you were going to slip on the bana peel. [00:39:05] Speaker A: That's right. [00:39:06] Speaker B: Even though I put the banana peel in your way. [00:39:08] Speaker A: That's right. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:08] Speaker A: I mean, their whole intent is to find fault. [00:39:11] Speaker B: Right? So live such good lives among these kinds of people that even though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. Live away so that even people who are trying to make you slip up see what you do through the Lord and what the Lord is doing through you, so that even they, even these people will recognize the goodness of God. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Huge influence. Yeah, huge. [00:39:54] Speaker B: So how do we apply that? Let's talk about application of that in our lives for a minute, and then we'll land this thing. [00:40:01] Speaker A: Well, I want to read one more scripture. [00:40:03] Speaker B: Okay, go ahead. [00:40:04] Speaker A: And it's first, Thessalonians one, six through eight. [00:40:07] Speaker B: Go ahead. I like this one. [00:40:09] Speaker A: Right? [00:40:09] Speaker B: I like this one. [00:40:10] Speaker A: And when you think about leadership and influence, what my outline calls this the ripple effect, right? [00:40:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:18] Speaker A: So it says, you become imitators of us and of the Lord. For you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the holy spirit. And so you became a model to all the believers in Macedonia and Achia, I think, Achaea, the Lord's message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaea. Your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore, we do not need to say anything about it. [00:40:48] Speaker B: See, now that is influential living right. [00:40:54] Speaker A: There because of this. Right? That word, therefore, we talked about the word therefore all the time. All the time because of what I just said. Therefore, we do not need to say anything about it. [00:41:05] Speaker B: There's nothing to be said because this is who you are. [00:41:08] Speaker A: That's right. [00:41:09] Speaker B: This is what you are. Yeah, I love that verse, by the way. I love that verse. [00:41:15] Speaker A: It's definitely thought provoking. [00:41:20] Speaker B: I think it really is. And so think about the ripple effect in our lives today, the ripple effect in our ministerial lives. [00:41:31] Speaker A: Yeah, right. [00:41:34] Speaker B: And I can give you examples of guys who have come to know us, the two of us specifically, but come to know our ministries, bikers for Christ and force Brotherhood. There are guys in these secular clubs now, who are posting scripture? [00:41:57] Speaker A: There is. [00:41:58] Speaker B: Who are posting. I'm sold out in God's army. [00:42:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:03] Speaker B: I'm talking about saying this to the world. [00:42:05] Speaker A: That's right. [00:42:06] Speaker B: It's not just to a closed audience. [00:42:10] Speaker A: That's right. [00:42:10] Speaker B: But they're saying it to the world. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And what does it say for. We said that this morning. But when you have people who have been members of that community for decades, and when something goes bad, they call. [00:42:27] Speaker B: They call us. [00:42:27] Speaker A: Will you pray for us? Will you pray for this? Can you have somebody go to the hospital and pray for this person? Right. For this child, whatever it may be. [00:42:35] Speaker B: So I have a club son, who is a great, great guy, and I'm not going to call his name, but he and his son, he went with his son to get a tattoo. His son was getting the tattoo. This guy was just going with him. And they went to this tattoo shop of somebody in the life. And the guy was at that time wearing a t shirt. The tattoo artist was wearing a t shirt with six. Six six on it. Okay. He turns and asks my club son in front of his son to pray for his son and his granddaughter. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:23] Speaker B: And he's got six, six six on his t shirt. [00:43:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:27] Speaker B: But he knows the influence of this guy. And he knows the spiritual walk of this guy. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Look, he knows our God's more powerful. [00:43:42] Speaker B: He does. [00:43:44] Speaker A: I'm not trying to make a joke about it. [00:43:45] Speaker B: No. And I didn't take it that way. So here it is. Live such good lives among the pagans that even though. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Even when. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Even if and when you do, the ripple effect is this. [00:43:59] Speaker B: Is it. [00:44:00] Speaker A: We don't need to say anything about it. No, because we know. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:44:05] Speaker A: Praise God, man. [00:44:06] Speaker B: I've enjoyed it today. [00:44:07] Speaker A: This has been a good one. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:09] Speaker A: Sometimes we never know. Look, we never know where we're going. [00:44:11] Speaker B: To go, but we have never scripted a podcast. Is that my. [00:44:17] Speaker A: I think that's your truck. Maybe it's not. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Hold on, I'll go to the window. Hold on. [00:44:35] Speaker A: Maybe it's my neighbor. We're going to pause. All right, we're back. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Sorry about that. That was nuts. I, like, touched my leg and my alarm and my truck went off. [00:44:49] Speaker A: Well, as we were saying, we never script anything. Including the alarm going off in a truck. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Truck alarms going off. We don't ever script this. So when we sat down, we've never laid out. Okay, I'm going to say this. You say this, and then we'll say this together, and then we'll disagree or agree with this. And never done that. Right. This has always been led by the Holy Spirit and always just kind of what God lays on our hearts is what we talk. So today was no different. And even though we were interrupted by a pagan truck. I'm just kidding. No. But we come to these with an expectation of both of us being filled at the same time and both of us growing from this. [00:45:35] Speaker A: Amen. [00:45:36] Speaker B: And so today is no different. And, brother, I have truly enjoyed it, too. Me, too. Folks, we want to remind you that we are on every single podcast platform and even on YouTube. You can get us on Apple, Apple, Spotify. Spotify, yeah. Google. I forgot about Google. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I heart radio, Amazon music, Stitcher, you name it. It publishes, like, 20 different podcast platforms. [00:46:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And if you want to see how ugly we actually are, check us out on YouTube. But send us an email sometimes. [00:46:13] Speaker A: I mean, my head might not fit in the. [00:46:19] Speaker B: Oh, my God. We're not going to head size today. I know we're not. But if you have any questions or if you have a topic that you would like for us to cover, or if you would like to help us, help you find a local church or. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Something, something we can pray for. [00:46:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Prayer request. Anything. Send us an email at [email protected] and we always want to remind you to love God and love people.