Today we talk about Holidays and Christians

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Everybody. It's Rick and Rob. Welcome back to the Nomad Pastor podcast. [00:00:11] Speaker B: It's good to be back. [00:00:13] Speaker A: It is amazing. Love it. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Because of scheduling things, we were forced to take several weeks off. [00:00:22] Speaker A: Yeah, unfortunately. [00:00:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:24] Speaker A: I mean, fortunately, but unfortunately. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:26] Speaker A: We were doing a lot of ministry stuff, too. [00:00:28] Speaker B: But at the same time, though, we were talking about this earlier. I missed it. [00:00:33] Speaker A: Me, too. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Not just because of our friendship, but I missed doing the podcast. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Well, I just feel like anything we do right, anything I do that can bring me closer to God. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:46] Speaker A: And this does it for me. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Me, too. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Right? The conversations that we have you challenge me, I challenge you type of thing. Our relationship is amazing. [00:00:55] Speaker B: Yeah. We've been friends for a long, long time. [00:00:58] Speaker A: I believe you're close friends, best friends. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah, me, too. [00:01:02] Speaker A: But just the conversation about God is so important in my life that I miss it drastically. [00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I do, too. [00:01:12] Speaker A: So what do you want to talk about today? [00:01:13] Speaker B: So let's talk about holidays. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:18] Speaker B: We're coming up on Thanksgiving. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Just finished Halloween. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Just finished Halloween. And for all you people out there that go from Halloween to Christmas, stop it. It's not time to sing Christmas carols yet. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Right. [00:01:32] Speaker B: And peppermint mocha shouldn't be served yet. [00:01:35] Speaker A: Yeah. I tell you. [00:01:36] Speaker B: Come after Turkey Day. [00:01:38] Speaker A: We do a Wednesday night Bible study at my pastor's house. Pastor Gary is the pastor of Crossroads Fellowship in Tucker's Crossing. Right, right. Tucker's Crossroads. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Tucker's Crossroads. [00:01:51] Speaker A: Tucker's Crossroads. I'll get it. Right. [00:01:52] Speaker B: One of these days. You've only been going there for, what? [00:01:55] Speaker A: I know, a year? It is what it is. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Sorry, Pastor. [00:02:00] Speaker A: Sorry, Pastor. But we go to his house two weeks ago. Yeah, week and a half ago. We could go Wednesday, right? [00:02:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:08] Speaker A: They've already got, like, two, three Christmas trees up, stockings, and they're like, well, everybody's coming in town, kids grandkids for Thanksgiving, so they're having Christ giving or something like that. Thanks, Miss, or something. I don't remember. [00:02:26] Speaker B: Thanks, Miss. I like, that. Thanks. [00:02:28] Speaker A: I don't remember what they called it, but yeah. So it's all decked out, and I'm just like, Lord, we come home. Linda's like, we should get the tree out. [00:02:41] Speaker B: Let me ask you this. [00:02:42] Speaker A: You walk downstairs. We don't have the tree. [00:02:45] Speaker B: See, we several years ago, we decided to go with live trees, okay. Our cut trees instead of because it got to a point to where it was just such a hassle to drag the Christmas tree out, and you had to straighten everything out, and then you had to figure out why this set of branches over here wouldn't light up with the fake tree. And then we got rid of that one and got one where you had to restring the lights, and that lasted about one year, and she was like, no, I want to go to already prelit tree. And then we had the same problem again with the fiber optic prelit thing, and I was like, no rain on this. Let's just get a real tree. So we haven't even done a Christmas tree since we've lived in the house on Berry Lane. [00:03:31] Speaker A: That's years. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Three. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Did we do a Christmas tree last year? I don't remember. Yeah, and the year before that, we were in Arizona. It's in Arizona during the holidays. And we had a tree, it was like three inches tall, like a Charlie Brown. And it plugged in. So we had a spot in the RV that we plug. Christmas tree. [00:04:04] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:04:05] Speaker A: I mean, it was just the two of us and the dogs. Right? It was Christmas tree. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, see, we used to decorate. I got stuck on the roof one time putting Christmas tree lights up. No, like, literally had to call a neighbor. [00:04:25] Speaker A: No hard pass. [00:04:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but we decorated the yard, the porch. [00:04:34] Speaker A: You know how I do outdoor lights? I got one of those projector things. [00:04:39] Speaker B: See, I always wondered how good those were. [00:04:41] Speaker A: Hey, look, it works pretty good. I got three of them. Right? And so you got three different kind of light shows and you set them up the way you want. And that's how I decorate outside. [00:04:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:51] Speaker A: And you know why? Because I ain't getting on the roof. Well, I had somebody one time hanging lights on the roof, and he's like, hey, just hold my legs in case I fall. Like, if you fall, you're falling, dude. [00:05:01] Speaker B: You'Re down, dude, you ain't taking me with you. Yeah, so I ended up with some of those reindeer. You know, the white reindeer? [00:05:12] Speaker A: Yeah, we had all that stuff out in the front yard, too. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And the last year that we did that outside, I ended up taking all the lights out of one of the reindeer and replacing like I hung it up from a tree, like, from its back leg. Like, I cleaned it and I had this big old thing of aluminum foil for ice rink, kind of like and then I put these red lights coming out of this reindeer and landing out on this ice like it was bleeding out. I got in a little bit of trouble over that. [00:05:52] Speaker A: I bet you did. But anyway, it was one of the. [00:05:55] Speaker B: Romeko was like, I can't believe we're doing this. [00:05:57] Speaker A: I think we may still have some of those things, like yard ornaments that you plug. [00:06:01] Speaker B: I've got somewhere. [00:06:02] Speaker A: But she had the shed. I probably would, but I ain't putting them up. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Well, see, she's got this village of no, it's not, um it's like the it's got all this it's got, like, the schoolhouse and the train station depot and all outside. No, for inside. [00:06:26] Speaker A: For inside. Okay. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And she would set it up so that the entire Christmas village and she had, like, tool and looked like snow, and she had light it up, and then it got to where we would go to, like, Joanne's or Michael's or Hobby Lobby after Christmas to find things after Christmas. After Christmas. Like 70% off for the Christmas village stuff. Had the little thunderbird car and had fire truck, fire engine truck, stuff like that. All that stuff has been put up in the top of the shop for years. For years, yeah. Because we haven't done it. [00:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah. That's crazy. I'm all for a nativity scene, though. I love nativity scenes. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Well, if it's the Home Alone nativity scene, I'm down with that. [00:07:22] Speaker A: My mother in law has the willows. Have you seen the willow? Like, you get them at Hallmark. [00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:27] Speaker A: And I want to say, between us and Linda's brother and Aaron, our son, maybe the last ten years, every Christmas, we've got her a piece of the willow. [00:07:39] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:07:40] Speaker A: She has every piece. [00:07:42] Speaker B: Yeah, she got it all in a. [00:07:43] Speaker A: Curio cabinet, like no, I mean, she takes it out for Christmas every year, and she puts it back in the original boxes every year. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:07:52] Speaker A: And it is immaculate. But it's bigger than this table. Yeah, right. Everything a couple of years ago, they came out with three new pieces, like a camel and this. [00:08:02] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:08:02] Speaker A: We got them all, and I love to see it. Right. I really do love the nativity scene from Bethlehem. And I don't know, maybe it's just the softy in mean, I know I'm. [00:08:17] Speaker B: Fat Rick has a soft side. He really does. He's not a jerk all the time. I'm just kidding. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Just most of the time. All right, so we want to talk about holidays and Christians and Christianity. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Where do you want to go with that? [00:08:30] Speaker B: So I'm kind of torn with it, because I love the holidays. I love the fact of family getting together. Yeah, right. Where I think we we where I think we get off track a lot of times with holidays, and I'm not talking just about Thanksgiving to Christmas. [00:08:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Could be any holiday. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Any holiday. Mother's Day, Halloween, whatever. Holiday 4, July, whatever, where we institute our own and inject let me say that institute and inject our own spin on either Christian values or our own interpretation of what this holiday needs to mean as a Christian, that we get off path and get off in the weeds. When you go to Target, for instance, and they say Happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas. [00:09:39] Speaker A: I agree with that. [00:09:40] Speaker B: It's all about Jesus. [00:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:42] Speaker B: It can't be a Christmas without Christ. That was his birthday. Exactly. [00:09:49] Speaker A: Unfortunately, a lot of people do that. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:51] Speaker A: All right, so let's pick some holidays specifically. Okay, we didn't talk about this beforehand. [00:09:56] Speaker B: No, we didn't. [00:09:57] Speaker A: Right. But let's pick Halloween first. [00:09:59] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:00] Speaker A: Let's talk about Halloween. [00:10:01] Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about that. [00:10:02] Speaker A: Do you believe that Christians should celebrate Halloween? It's a loaded question. It is a loaded question. [00:10:10] Speaker B: And so let me tell you my take on it. Okay. Of course, Halloween has got all this controversial beginnings, whether it was All Hallows Eve that's right. Or whether it was a remembrance of the undead correct. Or whatever. And I got pretty good at using the mic there then. Yeah. [00:10:30] Speaker A: You're like today? [00:10:32] Speaker B: Yeah. This is the Lord. So we get to a point to where we try to rationalize what we should or shouldn't do, and I think for me, Halloween needs to be just a fun loving time. Now, do I get into, like, I like to scare people? Let me say it this way. I like to have fun and give somebody a little jolt. [00:11:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:07] Speaker B: I don't want to scare somebody into thinking that I'm actually the boogeyman that lives under the bed, but if I can boo, if I can do something cute like that or something, I'm for that. I don't have an issue with going to, like, a costume party, but you ain't going to get this old boy dressed up like some demon. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So let me ask a different question. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Well, let me first say I don't have a problem with Halloween in the sense of kids dressing up, having a good time, and filled with joy. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Right. Getting together. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Getting together. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Getting some candy. I don't need the candy. [00:11:47] Speaker B: But now, if there's some whoppers in there, I'm on it. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Maybe some reese's. [00:11:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:54] Speaker A: Just on the surface, I don't generally have a problem with that. [00:11:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:00] Speaker A: Where I think I struggle is there are people who begin to idolize the holiday. Yes. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:07] Speaker A: But I also well, let me ask how you feel about it. How do you feel about a church holding a Halloween party inside the building? [00:12:19] Speaker B: No problem. [00:12:20] Speaker A: And they're allowing people to dress however they want. [00:12:24] Speaker B: Well, here's the thing. I have been involved in so many. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Different churches yeah, me too. [00:12:41] Speaker B: That have done haunted houses. [00:12:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:47] Speaker B: I got in trouble one time. We were involved in a new church that was renting a church building from another faith. Another church of faith. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Just different service times. [00:13:01] Speaker B: Right. And actually, we had the whole building, but they still stored some things in there. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Okay. [00:13:07] Speaker B: And I was a chainsaw dude with a choir robe on, and I got in trouble for wearing a choir robe from the people that own the church. Okay, but anyway, that's not the hearing. What I'm saying. I don't have an issue with having a Halloween party at a church. Okay, let me explain. I don't see that any different in being able to introduce Jesus to somebody than a Sunday morning service or a Thursday night recovery group meeting or anytime somebody comes in off the street. And let's say a young couple comes in off the street and she's got a super high mini skirt on. [00:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:57] Speaker B: Okay. What's the difference in her coming into a church service like that and being able to show how a woman should dress modestly? Now, I'm not saying that you got to wear a skirt down around your ankle. [00:14:14] Speaker A: I know exactly what you're saying. I think. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Okay, so what's the difference in being able to show somebody that and having a trunk or treat trick or treat or a party at Halloween at a church where somebody comes in and you're able to show them why they shouldn't be? [00:14:36] Speaker A: Do you think there's boundaries, though? [00:14:38] Speaker B: In what way? [00:14:39] Speaker A: Well, because if we use the example that you just used, right, a woman coming in with a short mini skirt, you're supposed to love them and bring them in and do whatever you can to help. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:14:50] Speaker A: But is there boundaries where the church shouldn't have somebody running around like the devil? Is there boundaries? I think there is. This is my opinion. Okay. I think there are boundaries. Right. Halloween itself for children, not a big deal. Right. But as adults, even Christians, right. We're supposed to be above reproach at times. [00:15:19] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:20] Speaker A: And so if I'm telling people it's okay to run around like I'm a demon, in theory, I'm idolizing that. Right. That's what I want it to be. [00:15:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:15:36] Speaker A: I'm not saying don't have a haunted house or don't have a fall festival or a trunk or treat or a this, but should there be parameters around what's okay and what's not? [00:15:47] Speaker B: I see what you're saying, and I incline to agree. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah. I personally don't think a church should I think if you want to have a fall festival and call it a fall festival and you're not having church staff dressed up okay. Right. But a haunted house or a Halloween inside the church, I don't know. Go to a community event where you can give out candy. [00:16:17] Speaker B: Okay, so I see both sides of. [00:16:18] Speaker A: The line on that. I didn't think we would completely agree, and we don't always, and that's okay. [00:16:23] Speaker B: So let me ask you this. I'm sure you have heard the song Set me free by casting crowns. [00:16:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Right. Have you ever seen the skit? [00:16:35] Speaker A: No. [00:16:35] Speaker B: That's done around that song. [00:16:37] Speaker A: No. [00:16:37] Speaker B: Okay. Google it. Go to YouTube. Watch it. Okay. It was done on a church stage the first time I ever saw it. I've been involved in this kid. I completely, 100% think that this is a huge ministerial tool, right? [00:16:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:55] Speaker B: So the gist of it is devil bad, God good. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Okay. That's the whole gist of the skit in it, this young man is walking along and gets entangled in the different things of life lust. [00:17:17] Speaker A: That's pilgrim's alcohol, right? [00:17:19] Speaker B: It is. It really is. [00:17:20] Speaker A: It's pilgrim's progress. [00:17:21] Speaker B: So it's a pilgrimage. [00:17:22] Speaker A: But there's a difference in on a Sunday when somebody came to a service that they are watching a skit where they see the pastor and other members of the congregation perform this skit that can be explained to them. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:40] Speaker A: There's a difference with that. And I don't know who's who because they're all dressed up and some of them are dressed up like the devil, and some of them are dressed up like demons, and maybe it's the pastor. I don't really know. And we just walk through this haunted house inside a church, and nobody really talks to me. I don't know what's going on. I'm just here to have my kids run through the haunted house. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Got you. Okay, so let's talk about let me go back to this part of the skit is there is a guy dressed up as a perceived devil okay. In my involvement in this in my involvement in this skit, and I just recently was the guy that played the part of the devil right. Was prayed up before and after the skit. [00:18:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Right. Okay. So let me get that out of the way when talking about this pastors or church staff not dressing up as a demon and things like that, I can subscribe to that. Okay. And I'm not saying that I'm on this side of the line that says they shouldn't. I'm not saying that I'm on the other side of the line that says it's okay. What I'm saying is in context of that and not having some sort of explanation of good versus evil at the end of it and an opportunity to understand of what repentance is and understanding of what taking the responsibility for what sin is in your life is so that Jesus can wash it away, that that haunted house is no good. [00:19:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, unfortunately, I haven't been involved in the haunted houses that you have been. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:42] Speaker A: But there's not the right opportunity to have those conversations when people are hustling through a haunted house right. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Because of organization that's right. In that it gets back to your perception and people's perception of what your perception is. [00:20:03] Speaker A: That's right. [00:20:04] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. And we're talking about Halloween. So in the preparation for planning that, we need to dig deeper into the way that people shuffle through. I would agree with that, because if it's just single file line going through like you're going through a roller coaster ride, then you're having this for the wrong reason. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Look, I love a haunted house. Halloween comes. I'm like, which haunted houses can we go to? [00:20:36] Speaker B: Well, right. Yeah. I love a good haunted house. [00:20:39] Speaker A: I don't I mean, it's been years and years. [00:20:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Went. But I also don't idolize them, and to some extent, I do believe that it's the responsibility of a parent to make sure that their children know what's going on. [00:20:58] Speaker B: I agree. [00:20:58] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:59] Speaker B: I agree. [00:20:59] Speaker A: Because I think far too often we idolize the candy holiday. That's it not the demon holiday, not the devil, not kids don't know all that stuff. [00:21:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:08] Speaker A: But we allow the children to idolize the candy holiday. I get to dress up, and I get lots of candy. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Right. All I got to do is go up there and go, trick or treat, smell my feet. Give me something good to eat. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:21:19] Speaker B: But in your assessment of how parents should be able to differentiate so let's go back to this church. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Hold a hall of House thing. I'm doing this for a reason, not to rebut anything, but refute, even if. [00:21:34] Speaker A: You are, it's okay. [00:21:35] Speaker B: Well, I know, but still, what I'm saying is to further pound that home you were talking about, parents should be able to have that conversation. What about parents that don't know that are coming off the street? [00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:21:48] Speaker B: So it's even more important at that point for a church that is doing something like that to have that cool down breakdown period to where let's break this down. What you just walked through. Yeah, I saw a thing. I still haven't been able to go to one because of schedules and stuff like that. But I even saw a billboard in Lebanon for the heaven or hell thing that comes out at Halloween. A lot of different churches do it. I know. Freedom Church in Gallatin did one, I. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Think I remember seeing one for Love's Way, maybe from where? [00:22:25] Speaker B: From way church did one. Yeah. As a heaven or hell. And it's like a play, right? And at the end of it, it was like there's a question and answer session, if I'm not mistaken. [00:22:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I've never been to one. Right. [00:22:44] Speaker B: I've never been to one either. [00:22:48] Speaker A: This is just personal for me. I'm not really a full gospel church kind of guy. Like, you're going to fall out, I'm going to touch you. [00:22:56] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:22:57] Speaker A: Benny Hen style. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm not either. [00:23:01] Speaker A: Teach their own. That's not me. [00:23:03] Speaker B: Well, that's another podcast, and you really need to get the book misled. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. Get it, get it, get it. So anyway, what I'm saying is having that opportunity to be able to break down what you just experienced, and not that we need to share Jesus and share the gospel in an emotional way, but in a truthful way, in an unbiased way, in a here's the nuts and bolts of all this kind of thing. God, good, devil, bad. [00:23:45] Speaker A: I guess I just feel like there's not time to do that generally for churches, mainly, not because the church doesn't want to, but I think we've come to this time in society where it's not necessarily safe for your kids to run around the neighborhood. So there's less and less. When we were kids, we took off. [00:24:09] Speaker B: There was four of us going through the tree without any adults, two different. [00:24:11] Speaker A: Costumes, four different neighborhoods. [00:24:13] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:14] Speaker A: Like, let's go get some candy. [00:24:15] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. [00:24:16] Speaker A: But now I feel like it's not as safe for parents to do that. So parents are doing more. We're going to go to this church and then this church, and then we're going to do this fall festival, and we're going to do Trunk or Treat, and we're going to go to the lebanon Square at this time. And so because the dynamic has changed, I don't think churches have the ability to have that time. So if you're not going to have the ability to have that time, the reason to open your doors is to show people love. The reason to open your doors is to give people more than what they had when they walked in. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:59] Speaker A: Are you doing that when you don't have an opportunity to talk to them? Because it's just about for a lot of families, it's like, I'm going to go here and then here and then here and then here. [00:25:07] Speaker B: So I think it gets back to what I was saying before with planning. It all out. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:16] Speaker B: We don't have full pews. Our seats aren't filled in the church right now because people I don't want to hear that. [00:25:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. [00:25:24] Speaker B: So if you plan something but that's. [00:25:26] Speaker A: Only when I think my opinion I think they don't want to hear that when it's a condemning message. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Well. [00:25:34] Speaker A: It'S not an easy message, so I'm not sitting here trying to say it should be watered down. [00:25:38] Speaker B: And at the same time, though, what condemns me or convicting? Let's say convicting instead of condemning. Okay. Because what convicts me and shows me may be different than what it would be for you. [00:25:55] Speaker A: I agree with that. [00:25:56] Speaker B: Okay. So when we say condemning, there should never be a condemning message where we're condemning people. That's not our job, first of all. [00:26:05] Speaker A: I agree with that. [00:26:06] Speaker B: Okay. But the conviction and presentation is where we should go with this. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. [00:26:15] Speaker B: Right. Because it's not my job to continue. [00:26:21] Speaker A: I can judge nobody. [00:26:23] Speaker B: Well, now I can, I can look. [00:26:25] Speaker A: I can be judged. I can judge people, and it's a sin for me to judge them. Right. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Royal. [00:26:29] Speaker A: Depending on what's going on. Right. Because there's a proper way to do it. There's a biblical way. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:35] Speaker A: Right. We know that. [00:26:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Biblical way. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:39] Speaker A: It doesn't just say don't judge, although a lot of people take that out of context. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:26:44] Speaker A: But there's a Biblical way to have those conversations. True. Right, true. But I can't judge somebody's salvation. [00:26:55] Speaker B: Exactly. So in that presentation of what salvation looks like and what it requires and the way that it happens, I agree with that. Okay. There needs to be some of that forethought and planning so that at the end of the haunted house tour, whatever it is, those things can be approached, presented, and a question and answers of an understanding after. [00:27:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I've been against it for a long time, halloween in the church. And I think if the approach was different, I would probably have a different feeling. What I just thought about was when Linda and I went and toured the Ark. Have you been to the Ark in Kentucky? [00:27:51] Speaker B: I haven't. I want to go so bad. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. You got to go. You got to go. Right. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Okay. [00:27:55] Speaker A: You just got to go when we went toward the ark, several points throughout the tour, right. And it's a self guided tour, but several times throughout the tour, there's a stop and a pause. And that pause is like, watch this video and it talks about because there's a point in there. Like, what about dinosaurs? What about the water system? Like, how did you have clean water? How did you have this? And all these things on the ark, what about fossils? Right? Where do they go? And it teaches you all these things, but at several points throughout, there's a pause, and it explains to you what you have just seen. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Right. And so maybe I would have less issues with a haunted house if throughout it, there was pauses. [00:28:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:28:45] Speaker A: Right. And somebody said you're loved here's. This not what you just saw. [00:28:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:28:53] Speaker A: But there's planning like you're talking about. Right. But there was a pause a couple of times throughout, so it didn't seem like it was so large at the end, you didn't have to have a 20 minutes thing at the end of it. Yeah, it'd be like two minutes here, two minutes here, two minutes here type of deal. Right. [00:29:09] Speaker B: Well, that's a pretty cool idea. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Maybe I would be more open to it then. [00:29:12] Speaker B: I like that. Let's do it. [00:29:14] Speaker A: I don't know about that. [00:29:15] Speaker B: What do you mean? [00:29:16] Speaker A: I mean, you do it at your church. [00:29:22] Speaker B: I don't have enough rooms in my church. [00:29:23] Speaker A: We don't either. Yeah, we do a fall festival, right? [00:29:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:28] Speaker A: I didn't go to it. [00:29:29] Speaker B: We had a trunk or treat. [00:29:30] Speaker A: That's what it is. I mean, it's still fall festival. [00:29:32] Speaker B: Yeah, same thing. [00:29:33] Speaker A: We took a ton of candy. [00:29:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Made a bunch of donuts. [00:29:35] Speaker B: I was out of town. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Where were we? I don't know where we were. All right, so we've talked a little bit about Halloween. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:43] Speaker A: What about other holidays? [00:29:44] Speaker B: You want to shift gears? Yeah, we want to go to I don't care. [00:29:48] Speaker A: Just holidays in general, maybe. [00:29:49] Speaker B: No, let's call some specific ones. Specific ones? [00:29:55] Speaker A: Well, let's just go to the big one. [00:29:56] Speaker B: All right. [00:29:56] Speaker A: Easter. [00:29:57] Speaker B: Easter. [00:29:58] Speaker A: Oh, you thought I was going to say Christmas. [00:30:01] Speaker B: I did. Now we're talking about my candy, though. The cadbury egg. [00:30:07] Speaker A: We are talking about your candy. [00:30:08] Speaker B: See? [00:30:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:11] Speaker B: So the two biggest church services of the year are what? [00:30:14] Speaker A: Christmas and Easter. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Christmas and Easter. [00:30:16] Speaker A: The C and E crowd. [00:30:17] Speaker B: Yes. So why is Easter pushed harder than Palm Sunday? [00:30:29] Speaker A: I can't answer that. I don't know. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Why is Easter pushed harder than the second Sunday of July? [00:30:38] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Right after Independence Day? [00:30:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Why is it but what about Good Friday? Exactly. Why is there a Monday Thursday service for some churches and Ash Wednesday? So here's my point for Easter. I look at Easter as the day that we as a body of believers celebrate the resurrection right. I'm not saying that Easter Sunday was the day that Jesus that's when we celebrate. It's just President's Day or Abraham Lincoln's birthday, which we know that's a specific day. Obviously, we have historical evidence of that. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Correct. [00:31:26] Speaker B: But what I'm saying is, for Easter, for me, that's the day that's not the only day, but that's the day to where the focus only on the resurrection happens. Now, the Easter Bunny. [00:31:48] Speaker A: But when you look at the holiday, how do people know that? If you're not, like, walking with Christ and you look at that holiday, how do people know that that's why it's there? [00:31:59] Speaker B: I don't think they do. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Clearly, tons of people go to church on Christmas and Easter that are not walking it out every day. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:11] Speaker A: That doesn't mean they're not Christian. [00:32:13] Speaker B: So let me ask you this. So is that out of guilt from a family member or guilt from a conviction inside their own head? [00:32:20] Speaker A: I think it is one of three things. Those two or they were invited that day. I think there's a large number of Christians that believe, oh, it's Easter. I'm going to invite somebody today. And if you look at the build up to Christmas and Easter, a lot of churches will start giving you things. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Friendship cards and right. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Oh, give these to your friends. Have them come for Christmas. Give these to your friends. Have them come for Easter. Right. Why aren't we, like, every day, give these to your friends, have them come. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Well, let me ask you this. Why is Easter and Christmas the only two times we have cantatas? [00:33:02] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:33:05] Speaker B: Really? [00:33:06] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:33:08] Speaker B: Why aren't we having this huge festival every Sunday? [00:33:13] Speaker A: Well, it should be. [00:33:14] Speaker B: That's a celebration angels celebrate. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:19] Speaker B: But at the same time, it's something that we come together for life. [00:33:29] Speaker A: Yeah, we do. [00:33:30] Speaker B: What difference is that? [00:33:34] Speaker A: We're not trying to minimize the resurrection. [00:33:36] Speaker B: No, not at all. [00:33:39] Speaker A: I don't know why I just felt like I needed to say that. It was probably like Spirit saying, okay, say this real quick. [00:33:45] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:33:45] Speaker A: We're not minimizing the resurrection. [00:33:47] Speaker B: Not at all. Because if it wasn't for the resurrection, we wouldn't be here. [00:33:50] Speaker A: That's right. [00:33:53] Speaker B: But what we're saying is, why do we play up these things as a selling point? [00:34:04] Speaker A: That's my question. Right. [00:34:06] Speaker B: Instead of selling the point. [00:34:09] Speaker A: That's right. I know it's a great way to get people to go to church. [00:34:14] Speaker B: Right. But getting people to go to church. [00:34:16] Speaker A: Doesn'T it shouldn't be once or twice. [00:34:18] Speaker B: A year seal it. Right. [00:34:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. Does not seal it. Like, oh, I went check. [00:34:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:25] Speaker A: I used to believe that, not just on the Easter and Christmas, but we've talked about it. Right. I went to church. I'm good. [00:34:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:35] Speaker A: I can do whatever I want the rest of the week. Right. [00:34:41] Speaker B: I'll be honest with you. There were times I would get up on Sunday morning, lead worship, go home and. Drink that night. [00:34:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:50] Speaker B: Drink to oblivion that night. [00:34:55] Speaker A: That's hard. [00:34:56] Speaker B: And so I had this great visual for people to see. That was a blank. It wasn't an introspective look into what I was. [00:35:12] Speaker A: You showed what you wanted them to see. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Right. And that's what happens when we don't allow ourselves full respect of what the gospel is. [00:35:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:26] Speaker B: And too many times we expect to hammer in what the gospel is on Easter and Christmas to those twice a year crowds. [00:35:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:39] Speaker B: And I would like to see more of a concerted effort. I don't think that just inviting people to church inviting people to church. Inviting people to church and getting them in a routine of coming is going to be what makes them come full circle to Christ. [00:36:00] Speaker A: It's not I mean, there's got to be a heart change. [00:36:03] Speaker B: There's got to be. And until we figure out how we go about allowing the Holy Spirit to make that conviction yeah. [00:36:16] Speaker A: That's the key. More than you know. Like, I mean, we went to church every Sunday, Linda and I, and I checked out when I left. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:26] Speaker A: And I'm paying my tithe, and I'm going to I'm good. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:30] Speaker A: I'm covered. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:31] Speaker A: But I didn't really have a heart change. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:35] Speaker A: And once I had a heart change oh, game's over. [00:36:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:40] Speaker A: I shouldn't say game over, but the old game. The old game's over. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:44] Speaker A: Right. It's a new game. [00:36:45] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a whole new ballgame. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Do you think sometimes, I hate to admit this, but sometimes on Easter, I'm. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Like. [00:36:59] Speaker A: There'S not going to be nowhere to sit. [00:37:03] Speaker B: I'm going to go to the sunrise service because nobody else is going to get up at the crack of dawn. [00:37:06] Speaker A: And watch it's going to be hot in there because there's 8000 more people. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:10] Speaker A: Right. [00:37:11] Speaker B: It's going to be miserable. Yeah. [00:37:14] Speaker A: I hate to admit that, but sometimes I'm like, I know what the message is going to be. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:23] Speaker A: I still go. [00:37:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Linda won't let you stay home. The last several years. The last several years, it's been of course, my pastor is an expositional teacher. He's not topical and love that. So we've been in the middle of a series the last couple of Easters, and it wasn't your typical because he. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Keeps going down that series. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:56] Speaker A: Which he should. [00:37:57] Speaker B: Right now. There's a tie in. [00:37:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:00] Speaker B: And it never ceases to fail that wherever we're at in that expositional study at the time or in that teaching at the time, that it just works for Easter or for Christmas, either one. [00:38:18] Speaker A: I love that. I do. I love that. [00:38:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:20] Speaker A: And let me tell you why I love that. Because I believe if somebody goes for the Easter service or the Christmas service only, we'll just use Easter, if somebody goes for the Easter service and that's the only one they normally go to, generally they're going to hear the exact same message every year. Sure. Right. But if your pastor, if your preacher is Expositional, right, and he has a plan, like, oh, I'm going to do this for ten weeks, and you go on Easter Sunday and it's week five, a lot of people maybe it's just me. But if I went and it was week five and it was a really good message, I'd be like, I got to go listen to week one through four. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Right? Yes. Because it wasn't just catered to this specific event exactly. This specific day. Right. I think sometimes pastors do themselves and their congregation an injustice by having a dedicated unless you're topical all the time. Right. But I think you do yourself an injustice if you change your preaching style just for that day. [00:39:28] Speaker B: I agree. Not just the style, but the message that you're delivering. [00:39:33] Speaker A: Yeah, the message, like, if your style is to preach through books of the Bible right, for weeks at a time, then you should always do that. [00:39:44] Speaker B: Hey, dude, we spent 59 weeks in first Peter. [00:39:47] Speaker A: Look, when Linda and I went to LifePoint yeah. [00:39:53] Speaker B: He did Acts oh, my for, like, four years. Yes. [00:39:59] Speaker A: Right. But what he would do is he would do six months. He'd do Acts for six months, and then he would do Romans for six months, and then he would come back to Acts for six months. [00:40:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:11] Speaker A: And it was like a common thing. We'd go to church and he'd be like, okay, we're going to do and we'd be like, oh, Lord, are we going to do action ever? But that was how he preached, and it was learned a ton of stuff. The pastor is Pat Hood. He's amazing. [00:40:29] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:40:30] Speaker A: Same thing, though, right? [00:40:31] Speaker B: It didn't matter. [00:40:32] Speaker A: He was preaching what he was going to preach. [00:40:33] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. We did 49 weeks in Exodus and just got to Exodus, Chapter 20. [00:40:41] Speaker A: Yeah, that's about right. [00:40:43] Speaker B: 49 weeks. [00:40:45] Speaker A: That's about right, though. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Yeah. But my point is, and to go back to your point, at the same time, you're doing an injustice to just on that day, preach that day. [00:41:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Because human nature, the intrigue is going to be more but at the same time, people that are coming to an Easter service are going to realize that it's an Easter service, and people that are coming to a Christmas service are going to think this is just going to be about Jesus birthday. [00:41:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:27] Speaker B: What's that? Luke chapter what? Two what? Where is it? [00:41:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:41:31] Speaker B: Well, I don't need to go read it if I want to know more about it. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I know what he's going to say, right. [00:41:41] Speaker B: To inject or interject or to intersect, especially those two days, because they're Sunday, Christmas Sunday or Easter Sunday or whatever, to just make it about either. [00:41:58] Speaker A: But it's always Easter Sunday. Christmas is the one that floods may or may not be on a Sunday. Right? [00:42:03] Speaker B: Yeah. But there's always the Christmas Eve service. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Always a Christmas Eve service. [00:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Always a Christmas Eve service. [00:42:10] Speaker A: Little skit perform the manger. [00:42:17] Speaker B: Kid named Leon, right? [00:42:19] Speaker A: Twelve pound baby, he's five years old, playing the baby Jesus. [00:42:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:28] Speaker A: Joseph, which I love. Right. We go to Christmas Eve services. I love when there's prayer time around it. [00:42:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:42:38] Speaker A: I love the little skits. I love to see the kids involved. [00:42:40] Speaker B: I do, too. [00:42:41] Speaker A: Right. [00:42:41] Speaker B: I like going to hearing the Christmas choir and stuff. The kids choir and stuff. [00:42:47] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think more than anything, as we talk about holidays, just in general, and it goes back, we've talked about this topic a lot. Not holidays, but the topic of idols. Right. And I think that as Christians, we just have to recognize it's not about don't do it. Right. It's not about, oh, you shouldn't have your kids trick or treat. Some people believe that. Right. That's okay. There's nothing with that belief. But don't put it above God. Don't put your belief that it shouldn't be done above God. [00:43:25] Speaker B: Or that it should be above. [00:43:27] Speaker A: Or that it should be right. [00:43:28] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Don't idolize the holiday itself. [00:43:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:32] Speaker A: Or don't idolize your right to deny the holiday. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Right. The self righteous seekers that do. Um, I don't want to say let me frame this. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Okay. Because as Christians, we are to defend the faith. [00:44:03] Speaker A: We are, okay. [00:44:05] Speaker B: We absolutely are the faith. We are to give a ready defense for it. [00:44:11] Speaker A: Yeah. But not the holiday. [00:44:13] Speaker B: Well, let's zoom out just a little bit. Okay? So let's pretend let me give you a scenario here, okay? So I am someone who believes that Halloween should not be celebrated at all, right. I think it should be outlawed. This is scenario I was going to say. Are you saying that or I'm giving you a scenario. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Okay? [00:44:46] Speaker B: And I as a Christian, a firm scriptural Christian. Right. Believe that it is my responsibility to show others the way of Christ in that belief, in that mode of thinking. Could you see that part of what my thinking in showing others the way of Christ would be to preach against or teach against Halloween? [00:45:35] Speaker A: No. [00:45:36] Speaker B: Why? [00:45:37] Speaker A: Because Christ was 100% about love. Everything he has done for us is loving. [00:45:47] Speaker B: Okay? [00:45:51] Speaker A: And I'm not a fan of Halloween. Right. To each their own type of thing. Right. My grandkids do it and everything. [00:45:59] Speaker B: I don't like kids, so I don't do Halloween. [00:46:03] Speaker A: We turn our lights off. [00:46:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:05] Speaker A: But like this year, we went to the RV park and they had a Halloween hate ride and we gave out candy. We prayed for everybody, right. At the beginning, they were getting ready to have dinner, and I'm like, hey, can we pray? I'm going to be me. [00:46:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:21] Speaker A: Right. But how do I show somebody love and condemn them at the same time? Because I feel like when you're preaching. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Against something, is that condemning? [00:46:35] Speaker A: Well, I don't maybe it depends on. [00:46:36] Speaker B: How you do it. How so? [00:46:38] Speaker A: I think it depends on how you do it. [00:46:40] Speaker B: So if you preach against something, it's condemnation. [00:46:43] Speaker A: I think it depends on how you do it. [00:46:46] Speaker B: Explain. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Well, because it's easy to say, for me to say I'm not a huge fan of Halloween, but I understand that it's a joyous occasion for kids. [00:46:56] Speaker B: It's a happy occasion. Not a joyous occasion. [00:46:58] Speaker A: It's a happy occasion, okay, right. [00:46:59] Speaker B: I go there. [00:47:01] Speaker A: That's a different message than you're celebrating Halloween and going to go to hell. Because I've heard Christians okay, I've heard. [00:47:11] Speaker B: Christians say, I see what you're saying now. [00:47:13] Speaker A: This is a demonic, evil, devil influenced holiday, and by you supporting it, you're supporting the devil and evil, and you are doomed to damnation. I have seen and heard Christians say that, okay? [00:47:26] Speaker B: I've heard Christians say two out of the three. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:47:29] Speaker B: As far as it's a demon holiday, and for you to recognize it is celebrating demons, celebration of demons is you're cursed. Right, okay, so I understand that what you're saying. Let me get back to my illustration, my example, okay. As someone who believes that in my illustration, okay, not personally, but if I were someone to say, hey, this is a demonic holiday, it's a demonic celebration, and for you to celebrate it puts you in the same category as celebrating demons, am I wrong in telling them that I stopped there? I'm not condemning at that point. I'm not saying you're going to hell. [00:48:32] Speaker A: Right, all right. [00:48:33] Speaker B: What I'm saying is showing what I believe to be the light and the way of Christ, because Jesus, in this illustration, I would say Jesus wouldn't celebrate Halloween because it's the celebration of demons and the undead. [00:48:52] Speaker A: I think I probably have a different answer today than I would have before Christ, okay, right. Because I think when I was coming to Christ or before I came to know, we've talked about me growing up in Utah and the know and all that, but I would have probably asked, show me in the Bible where this is a demonic holiday. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Okay? [00:49:15] Speaker A: Show me in the Bible where it says that this is bad. Okay, that's what I would have said. [00:49:25] Speaker B: Right. I get that. [00:49:27] Speaker A: If we play it out, I get that that's an honest thing that somebody's going to ask or could ask. [00:49:33] Speaker B: Right. So let me ask you this, and this is how I would answer that question. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:40] Speaker B: Okay. And you've heard me talk about this before. We know certain things from scriptural history, oral history, rabbinical history, and Canical history, correct? Right. [00:49:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:59] Speaker B: We know things about the Bible through those. [00:50:03] Speaker A: That's right. [00:50:07] Speaker B: It is believed there are other writings about Christ, about Old Testament things correct. That are not part of canonical Bible. [00:50:20] Speaker A: And why are they not? Right? [00:50:26] Speaker B: I don't know that answer. [00:50:27] Speaker A: Right? Because the apologetic answer to why are they not? Is that there wasn't enough proof. [00:50:34] Speaker B: Right? [00:50:35] Speaker A: There wasn't enough proof of those findings, or they occurred so much later after the death of Christ right. [00:50:43] Speaker B: That they weren't included because there was. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Two or three generations. [00:50:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:50:47] Speaker A: So if you look at the New Testament, which is the newest thing after the Torah, right? There's this timeline of 40 BC to 73 or 79 or something like that. [00:51:02] Speaker B: Right? Right. [00:51:03] Speaker A: And they did that for a reason, because it was actual accounts. [00:51:06] Speaker B: True. [00:51:07] Speaker A: So other writings were not included in the biblical text because they couldn't be verified. [00:51:14] Speaker B: Right. So here's my point, though, right. We know of things through oral history and other chemical things, right. We have that support that they are true. [00:51:29] Speaker A: Correct. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Okay. And going back to show me in the Bible where this is a demonic holiday, we can go back to the origins of what All Hallowed Eve is, right. So we can pinpoint that and realize that the way that it started was a paganistic celebration of the undead zombies. [00:51:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:55] Speaker B: Right. So we have these things that we can go back to prove that we know from what we or that we can therefore interpret, because of what we know from the Bible that the paganistic holiday is not something that a Christian should be involved in. [00:52:20] Speaker A: I agree. [00:52:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:52:22] Speaker A: Right. So if that is the stance we're 52 minutes, by the way. [00:52:28] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. I didn't realize you were 52. [00:52:30] Speaker A: I didn't either. So I agree with what you just said. Right. Even though I was like, before Christ, this is what I would have asked. [00:52:36] Speaker B: Right. [00:52:38] Speaker A: But today I agree. If you trace the roots of it is a paganistic holiday. Right. And we're not supposed to be involved in those paganistic ways. So if that's the truth and there is actual when you trace the origins of it, why is it okay for a church to have a haunted house? [00:53:02] Speaker B: I want to read you something. [00:53:07] Speaker A: Because these are the questions that people have right. [00:53:17] Speaker B: Here. [00:53:17] Speaker A: Batman is looking something. [00:53:19] Speaker B: I'm looking up a verse. Hold on right here. [00:53:21] Speaker A: It's going to be like some do it for the wrong reason. [00:53:24] Speaker B: No, it's not. [00:53:25] Speaker A: Philippians. [00:53:26] Speaker B: No. Matthew 1618 hang on a second. Let me pull this up real quick. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Yeah, you're good? [00:53:35] Speaker B: Because I want to get everything correct here. Hang on. Not that one, not that one's. Here it is. [00:53:55] Speaker A: Okay. [00:53:55] Speaker B: Okay. So Matthew 16, starting in verse 13. [00:53:58] Speaker A: All right. [00:53:59] Speaker B: When Jesus came into the district of Caesarea philippi, you know what that is? [00:54:04] Speaker A: No. [00:54:04] Speaker B: Okay. So you were talking about we were we were talking about Halloween and all this. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:09] Speaker B: So this is an area that was dedicated to Caesar that had become paganistic. Where they were, it is believed, was the same as what Vegas is. [00:54:28] Speaker A: Okay. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Okay. With all the different things. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:31] Speaker B: And right in the mouth of this cave thing, jesus says, upon this rock I will build my church. Right. If Jesus can take the apostles to a place that is reflective of what we know today of modern day Vegas and say the gates of hell are not going to prevail against this. And I'm going to work my church right here. Right here. Then a church can have a haunted house and have those pauses that we talked about or have that end area at the end of it to be able to say what you've just seen is XYZ. [00:55:29] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's different, right? It's different that Christ went there with the apostles to the place that the sin already existed. [00:55:39] Speaker B: Okay? [00:55:40] Speaker A: Right. He didn't have a church and then create the sin for people to come to. [00:55:48] Speaker B: Okay, we're deep in this right now. [00:55:54] Speaker A: We are. And we're going to keep going. [00:55:56] Speaker B: Are you going to keep going? [00:55:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I do. [00:55:57] Speaker B: Okay, so here's the thing. Is that's kind of a trick question, what I was going to say. [00:56:10] Speaker A: It's okay if you ask me a trick question, but I still want to go back to the right, because that scripture, right? He went to the den of sin. [00:56:19] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:21] Speaker A: He didn't build the den of sin for people to come to. [00:56:29] Speaker B: Agreed? Right, agreed. [00:56:31] Speaker A: So if a church is building a haunted house to get people there, they're building that den to bring people to it, to bring them to the sin. Is that okay? Because what he says in that scripture, that scripture is drastically misused when it comes to Halloween. [00:56:51] Speaker B: I agree. [00:56:51] Speaker A: Right? [00:56:52] Speaker B: I agree again in that context that you're talking about. I agree with that. [00:56:59] Speaker A: Right? [00:56:59] Speaker B: I agree with that. But here's my point, okay? My point with that was in effective presentation. [00:57:15] Speaker A: I know what you're saying. It's not that I look, we said if there's these pauses, right? [00:57:21] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying, right. [00:57:22] Speaker A: I'm just trying to play the advocate of how are people going to see this outside the Christian faith. [00:57:30] Speaker B: I guess it's one of those things you got to see it to believe it. Okay, but that's a cop out. It is, but at the same time, when you have something like this and you bring people in to show the peril of sin, right? And then you pause and say, do you realize what you just saw? That all looked fun and that looked enticing, and those things were scary and there was a whole lot of stage production there. But let me explain to you what you just saw, right? Is there a difference in that? And a preacher standing in the pulpit on Sunday morning and saying, do you realize what happens to you when you drink all night long or when you XYZ? [00:58:25] Speaker A: I mean, the only difference is the preacher standing in the pulpit Sunday morning saying, do you know what happens when you drink all night? He didn't bring the drink to you. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Okay? [00:58:40] Speaker A: Right. He didn't drag you to the bar. [00:58:43] Speaker B: That's true. [00:58:44] Speaker A: And say, drink this, and then I'm going to tell you why you shouldn't. [00:58:49] Speaker B: Okay, I'm with you on that. I see your point. [00:58:52] Speaker A: I mean, that's a huge difference. No, it is. Right? Because the preacher didn't drag him to the bar and say, drink this. [00:58:59] Speaker B: Okay, but when you bring it into a haunted house so then would it. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Be okay for the preacher to open a bar at the church, say, come on in and drink, and after you drink, I'm going to tell you why you shouldn't? [00:59:13] Speaker B: No. [00:59:14] Speaker A: What's the difference? [00:59:15] Speaker B: Well. [00:59:21] Speaker A: It'S a valid question. [00:59:22] Speaker B: Actually, it is a valid question, but let me explain the difference. [00:59:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:26] Speaker B: Okay. Because inviting someone to a bar to drink and then go, oh, you know what the perils are are different than showing them what the perils are and not inviting them to participate, just to visualize it, just to see it because, yes, there's going to be some emotional reaction there in fear and the boo factor and things like that, but inviting them because to witness something is different than participating in that sense. [01:00:06] Speaker A: In that sense, aren't you participating if you have a haunted house? [01:00:10] Speaker B: What do you mean? [01:00:12] Speaker A: I mean, you're participating in that potential visualization of the devil or demonic forces you're in participation. [01:00:22] Speaker B: Well, remember when we started this off and I talked about the skit? [01:00:27] Speaker A: I know, but that's different because I've said right. [01:00:31] Speaker B: What's different about it? They start off playing the devil. [01:00:34] Speaker A: Well, yeah. Do they preface what's going on before the skit occurs? [01:00:39] Speaker B: No. [01:00:40] Speaker A: Right. I would think they should. [01:00:44] Speaker B: Why? For impact. [01:00:47] Speaker A: Yeah, probably. Right. But they're prayed up, too. I don't know. [01:00:53] Speaker B: So why can we pray up the guy that plays the devil in the skit and not pray up the people who are in the haunted house that are going to represent what that craziness you can. [01:01:04] Speaker A: But on Sunday, people are like, I don't know. I feel like somebody going to Sunday service and seeing a skit is not representing a paganistic holiday. [01:01:21] Speaker B: So presentation in presenting what that is, visualizing what that is, is participating in a pagan holiday. Is that what you're saying? [01:01:42] Speaker A: I don't know. Is it? I don't know. [01:01:45] Speaker B: That's what I'm asking. [01:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if it is or if it isn't. I know that it's a gray area. [01:01:49] Speaker B: For me, and we ought to stay away from a gray area to begin with. [01:01:53] Speaker A: I think we should. Right. Because a gray area can pull you the other way. [01:01:57] Speaker B: True. [01:01:58] Speaker A: Right, true. That's just like if you're an alcoholic, you can't drink ever. [01:02:04] Speaker B: No. [01:02:05] Speaker A: Right. No, because that one drink can rule over the edge. Right. [01:02:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:11] Speaker A: And so it's different. [01:02:15] Speaker B: It is. [01:02:18] Speaker A: I'm not saying I'm right. [01:02:19] Speaker B: I'm just saying I'm not saying you are, either, but I'm not saying I am. [01:02:23] Speaker A: That's right. No. I think it's a discussion that a lot of people have or should have. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Relates to Halloween, and I think it's a matter of where the question that you need to ask yourself is is this something that's going to cause me spiritual harm? Is this something that's going to cause me to go backwards? Or is this something that could potentially cause me to stumble or cause other people to stumble around? [01:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Let me ask you this question. We're an hour over. [01:03:02] Speaker B: Yeah. We're going to have to land this. [01:03:04] Speaker A: You know the game Magic the Gathering? [01:03:06] Speaker B: Magic what? [01:03:07] Speaker A: The Gathering. It's like a magic card. [01:03:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:03:09] Speaker A: Is it okay to play that in church? [01:03:11] Speaker B: I don't think so. [01:03:13] Speaker A: Why is that different? [01:03:16] Speaker B: Well, I don't know the whole parameter of the game. [01:03:20] Speaker A: It's about spells and cards. [01:03:22] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:23] Speaker A: Cast this and do that. Right. [01:03:25] Speaker B: Like Dungeons and Dragons kind of thing with a card deck of cards. [01:03:28] Speaker A: But magic. Right. Like Dungeons and Dragons is more rolled the dice. [01:03:31] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:34] Speaker A: I've never played, but I guess it's similar. So would it be okay to say we're going to have a magic tournament in the church today because we want to reach out to those people? [01:03:49] Speaker B: See, that's a different thing. [01:03:51] Speaker A: Is it? [01:03:51] Speaker B: Yes. [01:03:52] Speaker A: Why? [01:03:53] Speaker B: Because having a magic tournament where somebody could come in and not understand what the difference in good versus evil is. [01:04:04] Speaker A: So what about a haunted house where somebody's not going to understand the difference. [01:04:08] Speaker B: Between that's what we're talking about, having the pauses and that's why we're talking about at the end. [01:04:15] Speaker A: But does churches do that? [01:04:16] Speaker B: Honestly, I don't think so. [01:04:18] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:20] Speaker B: And we talked about that at the beginning, too, because so many people just want to come through and get their candy and go. Right, right. [01:04:27] Speaker A: So if that's the only reason for it, people want to come through, get their candy and go, then don't do it. They don't want to listen to a pause. [01:04:33] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:04:34] Speaker A: Right. So why continue to do it? [01:04:37] Speaker B: I don't think you should. But if you can do it to where like we talked about before, I. [01:04:42] Speaker A: Would if you could do it that way. [01:04:45] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [01:04:46] Speaker A: It's not that I'm against Halloween. [01:04:48] Speaker B: I know what you're saying, and I've known you long enough to know that. [01:04:50] Speaker A: Just for everybody listening. [01:04:52] Speaker B: Right. [01:04:52] Speaker A: It's not me being combative. [01:04:54] Speaker B: Right. I'm not trying to say we can't get Whoppers and Reese's Pieces. [01:04:57] Speaker A: I am all about it. I just don't think that it's not that I don't think now, again, I didn't go to my church's fall festival, so I don't know, it was like how they do it, but I haven't seen a church that did it in a way that I felt like glorified God over. Just give people candy. [01:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:22] Speaker A: And so if all it is going to be about is giving people candy. [01:05:25] Speaker B: Just fest people candy, why do that? Yeah. [01:05:31] Speaker A: Candy every week. [01:05:32] Speaker B: I have a better idea than giving candy. [01:05:34] Speaker A: Okay. [01:05:34] Speaker B: I think what we should do is scramble a bunch of eggs and put them out there in a big old bowl and say, one handful per kid. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Scrambled eggs. Love it. [01:05:47] Speaker B: It's better for you than candy. It is. [01:05:51] Speaker A: It absolutely is. Yeah, that's cheaper. Let's give you a Bible all about that. Let's do something all about that. We started this to talk about holidays. We got to, like, two or three. [01:06:07] Speaker B: We'Ve been away too long. [01:06:09] Speaker A: Stupid Halloween. [01:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:12] Speaker A: Again, it's not that neither of us are against Halloween. [01:06:16] Speaker B: No. [01:06:17] Speaker A: Right. [01:06:17] Speaker B: No. [01:06:18] Speaker A: Because we don't idolize it. We recognize what's going on. [01:06:22] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:22] Speaker A: And if you love Halloween and you don't idolize, it, good for you. You want to dress up. You want to go have a happy, good time and be with your friends. [01:06:31] Speaker B: Barbecue some praise stuff. [01:06:33] Speaker A: Praise God. That you can do that. [01:06:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:06:36] Speaker A: But Halloween is no different than anything else that you could idolize, and if you idolize it, it's a problem. [01:06:44] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:06:45] Speaker A: It's that simple, right? [01:06:46] Speaker B: Yes. [01:06:49] Speaker A: That's how I would probably land it. [01:06:51] Speaker B: That's how it needs to be landed. [01:06:53] Speaker A: Right. It's not a bad thing. [01:06:54] Speaker B: Yes, it's not. [01:06:55] Speaker A: It's just got to be done the right way. [01:06:56] Speaker B: Done the right way. Hey, folks, we appreciate you hanging in with us this long. This has been a long one. It's been a good one. But you know what? We appreciate you hanging with us. We were excited to get back together today and do some recording, and so we're on every single platform that you can think of, and even YouTube. [01:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we're on know. [01:07:19] Speaker B: You can even find us on iHeartRadio podcast platform. That's a pretty cool thing. [01:07:24] Speaker A: It's Spotify. Yeah, we're on Spotify, Google, Podcasts, itunes. [01:07:28] Speaker B: You name it, everything. [01:07:30] Speaker A: I think we're on Stitch. [01:07:32] Speaker B: We are. [01:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah, we are. There's several let's just say that there's. [01:07:36] Speaker B: A anyway, but always we want to remind you, everybody, to love God and love people.