Can I act how I want because I am saved?

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, it's Rick and Rob. Welcome back to the Nomad pastor podcast. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Man, it is so good to be back. [00:00:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the holiday time. How are you doing? [00:00:16] Speaker B: I'm pretty good. [00:00:16] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty good. You doing anything special for Christmas? [00:00:20] Speaker B: We're going to have a game night tomorrow. Oh, actually. With the kids. With of the kids? [00:00:25] Speaker A: Some of the kids. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Some of the other kids are traveling. [00:00:27] Speaker A: Yeah. That happens once they get married. [00:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah. It's hard to get everybody pinned down at one time. [00:00:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Especially my clan. They're all over the place. I mean, they're from Fort Knox to Dallas to Jonesboro, Arkansas. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Just all over. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah, everywhere. [00:00:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So today's what we're recording this as the 22nd. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Right. [00:00:50] Speaker A: So it's three days before Christmas. We're leaving 06:00 a.m. Tomorrow morning and just hard pass to Indiana. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:59] Speaker A: Got a family Christmas party, and then we were going to stay home. We were going to have friends come in from Virginia, but one of their kids got sick, so they're staying home. [00:01:10] Speaker B: Good choice. [00:01:11] Speaker A: We're going north. We'll see how it works out. I'll play a little cornhole and have a little inside. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Is it going to be cornhole? Yeah. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Cool. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Because in Indiana this time of year, I got a brother in Elkhart, Indiana, a club brother. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Yeah. That's farther north, cart, but not much farther than Wabash. Yeah, Wabash is just west of Fort Wayne. [00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it's up there, but right now, Ed, they've already had snow up there. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah, they've had the snow in Wabash, too. But it's supposed to be like, tomorrow is the party. It's supposed to be like 57, I think. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Oh, that's not bad. [00:01:48] Speaker A: 55. I can't. Maybe that was Sunday. I don't remember. My days are running together since my body's finally back in the right time zone and I'm traveling again. [00:01:58] Speaker B: That indian trip was awesome, wasn't it? [00:02:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. It was amazing, though, right? Let's be honest, it was pretty amazing. [00:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:07] Speaker A: But it was a lot. [00:02:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, when you factor in travel time, plus all the things that you had to get done while you were there. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Yeah. That's really what it is, right? [00:02:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:22] Speaker A: Not only is it eleven and a half hours ahead, right. Every day I was in a different city. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Sure. [00:02:32] Speaker A: And not a close city. I was like 4 hours away, 5 hours away. A three hour plane ride, a six hour plane ride. Every day I was in a different place. And so you just don't get used to it. And they say that when you're traveling, it takes your body one day per time zone to get used to it. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Really? [00:02:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what they say. [00:02:59] Speaker B: One day per time. [00:03:00] Speaker A: I don't think it's that much because we were eleven and a half hours ahead. But about the day I was coming home, I slept good. And then a 28, 29 hours trip back home, and now I'm starting to sleep good again. I'm leaving again. When I came back, I was only here for a day and a half. And then I went to Philly. Right. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Well, true, but still, there's a little bit of difference in the way that you're traveling now. [00:03:30] Speaker A: There is? [00:03:31] Speaker B: Than what? You traveled to India? [00:03:32] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:03:33] Speaker B: You can't drive to India. [00:03:34] Speaker A: No, you cannot. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:36] Speaker A: There are motorcycles everywhere, though. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:03:38] Speaker A: Little ones. But look, 125 cc. I think the biggest one was 400. [00:03:44] Speaker B: Either way, you and I would make that thing look like a mini bike. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:48] Speaker B: You know it. [00:03:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Now, they did have a Harley dealership there. I didn't go. [00:03:52] Speaker B: Dubai's got a big Harley dealership. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. Yeah, Dubai does. Lots of places are starting to catch on, to catch on a little bit. [00:04:00] Speaker B: Are there any indian dealerships there? [00:04:03] Speaker A: No, I did not. I don't see. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Yet another reason to remain on a Harley. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Well, I mean, are you taking your Harley to India? [00:04:13] Speaker B: No, but if I did, I knew that I would have dealer support there. [00:04:17] Speaker A: I hear you. And if I was moving to India, maybe I would do something else. Right. [00:04:23] Speaker B: A 400 cc Honda, probably. [00:04:28] Speaker A: Or a Ducati. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Ducati. That's right. [00:04:30] Speaker A: Ducatis are big. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:32] Speaker A: You can do Ducatis. [00:04:34] Speaker B: But let me ask you this. In a place like that, and this is hypothetical, okay? I'm not trying to speak anything into your life in a situation like that, where you were going to be in India, let's say, for a year. Right. Would you ride a dual sport? [00:04:53] Speaker A: Probably. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. [00:04:54] Speaker A: I probably would. [00:04:55] Speaker B: Yeah. But at least at some point there would have to be video footage of me jumping a sand dune. [00:05:02] Speaker A: Probably. [00:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:03] Speaker A: I would ride a dual sport. And the reason I think I would is just because riding our baggers around, it would be hard there. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:13] Speaker A: Right. Because traffic's crazy. Right. If you haven't been overseas to countries like India or the Philippines or places, traffic's crazy. If the highway is three lanes, there's actually six cars driving down it. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah. It's unregulated. [00:05:32] Speaker A: The lines are a suggestion. [00:05:36] Speaker B: That's kind of the way it is in south Alabama. [00:05:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And nobody really uses blinkers. They use their horn. [00:05:43] Speaker B: Really? [00:05:44] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I'm coming. Honk, honk. [00:05:47] Speaker B: Move over. [00:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah, basically. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Wow. [00:05:50] Speaker A: So it's pretty crazy, but it was an amazing trip. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Well, that's good. And you made it back safely. [00:05:56] Speaker A: I did make it back. And I'll tell you, when I was there, the most amazing thing happened. And we'll get to our think. And I've talked about him before, Tim, who owns rv park where I keep my rv up, Kentucky. He sends me this text message and he says, hey, can you talk? And I'm like, well, I'm in. Know I'm asleep kind. You know, what's going on? Is everything okay? And he just wanted to let me know that he was at church, him and his daughter, and they just felt like it was time to get baptized. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Nice. [00:06:31] Speaker A: And so he was calling to let that they had been baptized. [00:06:36] Speaker B: That is great. [00:06:37] Speaker A: And so, Tim, if you're listening, praise God. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Yeah, man. Congratulations, Tim. That's awesome. [00:06:41] Speaker A: It was so. I just love it. Love it for him. Love it for. [00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. [00:06:47] Speaker A: That's a big day. [00:06:48] Speaker B: That is a big day. [00:06:49] Speaker A: So it kind of made my trip. I was like, all right. This is pretty cool. [00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's really cool, man. That's really cool. Congratulations, Tim. [00:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, so today we want to talk about, I guess maybe forgiveness or people that believe that it's okay to act a certain way because they're christians. I don't know the right way to word it. [00:07:10] Speaker B: They're entitled because of the moniker of Christianity. [00:07:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:15] Speaker B: And we'll look at both sides of the entitlement. [00:07:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I've heard people say in the past and recently, I can do what I want because I'm saved. Right. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I've heard that a lot, too. [00:07:30] Speaker A: God has already forgiven my past, present, and future sins. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Sure. [00:07:35] Speaker A: So I can act however I want. [00:07:37] Speaker B: Well, here's how I won't say, debate that. [00:07:46] Speaker A: I would love to know how you debate that. Because while I disagree with them, I. [00:07:51] Speaker B: Highly disagree with them. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:53] Speaker A: With everything I disagree with them. What's the right way to debate it? [00:07:57] Speaker B: So the right way to debate it is to understand grace and to show them grace, but to also know that grace is not a get out of jail free. And there's. There's places specifically in scripture where Paul addresses and. And says that even though you live under the grace and not the law, that that doesn't give you the right to go on sinning. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:23] Speaker B: And I can't remember the specific address of that right now. But that's a paraphrase of what he said. Just because you're not under the law anymore and under grace and saved by grace, it doesn't give you a right to go on acting like a jerk. Yeah, you can't be a jack wagon. [00:08:40] Speaker A: What about the people? I agree. So I agree because I feel like for me, right, this is just me personally, that when I came to Christ, I didn't want to do that stuff anymore. [00:08:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:08:53] Speaker A: I had a real heart change. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Sure. [00:08:56] Speaker A: And if you have a real heart change, I don't understand how you can act that way. [00:09:01] Speaker B: I don't either. And here's the hang up that I have with that, okay. Because when you put on Christ as your lord and your savior and we should actually change that around to where it's your savior and your lord. Right. Because we'll get into that later. It's another podcast. But anyway, when you take on Christ as your savior and your lord and you want to follow his decrees, his commands, his precepts and his promises, when you want to do those things, there will be a change in your life that will be noticeable, that people will take an inventory of, literally, so that the things that they see in you, the old man has become new. How many times have we read that in scripture? You know what I mean? [00:10:01] Speaker A: A lot. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Or go back to where scripture talks about taking a heart of stone and turning it to flesh so that that hard hearted person is not somebody who cares, it's somebody who gives a crap now. [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:16] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:10:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker B: And so the difference that I have or the issue that I have with people who just have this idea of, well, because I'm a Christian now, I can act however I want and have that entitlement there doesn't give any credence to what scripture says as evident in their life. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah. How do you feel about. Because it's just things that I've heard people say and I try to dispute it the best I can. Right. But you know me, I love, but you know, somebody's, you know, what about the thief on the cross? He lived this horrible life and Jesus still saved him. Saved him, said, we'll be together in paradise. [00:11:07] Speaker B: All right. So there's a lot of different ways, I think, to debate that. [00:11:13] Speaker A: I agree. But that's why I'm asking, first of. [00:11:16] Speaker B: All, I'm not Christ. [00:11:17] Speaker A: That's right. [00:11:18] Speaker B: I can't make that designation. I can't make that determination. I can't decide who's going and who's not. [00:11:24] Speaker A: That's right. We can't judge anybody's salvation. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Exactly. And so to ask me, what about the thief on the cross? I'm not the judge of that. I'm not the one that makes that determination. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Amen. [00:11:38] Speaker B: All I. [00:11:38] Speaker A: And praise God that we're not. [00:11:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Praise God we're not. Because sometimes we do. Well, we do live in the world, and sometimes that flesh could be like, I don't like you. [00:11:51] Speaker B: Exactly. And it causes to do stupid things. [00:11:54] Speaker A: Right. So praise God that we don't get to make that decision. Right. Because we're human. [00:12:02] Speaker B: And here's the thing with that. And because we're human, for us to make the decision, the self proclamation that we're able to do that puts us on a spiritual level with Jesus. And ain't no comparison there, Hal, at all. I don't care who you think. [00:12:20] Speaker A: You right. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Until you can walk on water, until you can cleanse a leper, until you can raise the dead or. Or to make the blind man see or the deaf man hear, don't talk. [00:12:36] Speaker A: To him over and over. [00:12:39] Speaker B: You team draw her into wine. [00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:41] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:42] Speaker A: What about when somebody's like, I mean, the best way I could explain it is what if somebody's got, like, a potty mouth, right? And they're like, well, I could say what I want. It's similar. Right? [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, so this is a fun one. This is a great conversation piece right here. Here's why. Because galilean fishermen, even though they were a jewish, galilean fishermen were. And fishermen in general historically, are known to have a potty mouth. [00:13:24] Speaker A: They were. Yeah. [00:13:25] Speaker B: So if that potty mouth accepts Christ, accepts the salvation of Jesus, and continues with a potty mouth without even trying to change, I think there's a little bit of a misunderstanding with that person on what salvation actually is. [00:13:53] Speaker A: I think that's the key. Right. I think in everything that we've talked about, it's a misunderstanding of salvation. [00:14:02] Speaker B: I agree. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Right? [00:14:04] Speaker B: I agree. [00:14:04] Speaker A: It's a misunderstanding of salvation, of, well, I'm saved, right? I'm a sinner. God knows I'm a sinner, so I'll be okay. He's going to forgive my sins. Right. There's a misunderstanding of salvation. [00:14:19] Speaker B: I agree. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Right. But I also think there's a misunderstanding of a ton of stuff. Right. [00:14:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, but at the same time, though, Rick, where do we draw the line to say that with this misunderstanding of salvation that discipleship needs to start at that point? [00:14:36] Speaker A: I agree. It does. But how do you convince somebody of that when they want to continue to live the life that they've always lived. Because I say, well, I had a heart change. Right? My heart change said, I got to go do this. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Sure. [00:14:56] Speaker A: Not only did my heart change say, I shouldn't act this way, my heart change said, I need to go be baptized. Right, right. I hear a lot of people say, well, you don't have to be baptized or you don't have to read the Old Testament. Right. [00:15:13] Speaker B: Okay, so this again is another podcast. [00:15:18] Speaker A: It is. But if your heart is really changed. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Right. Like, there's another podcast called Al's always there, and they're talking about baptism in one of the episodes. And it's kind of a debate about, like, should you be baptized? Do you have to be baptized? Is baptism required? And they all say the same. Like, no, it's not a. It's a show of obedience. But then Jace Robinson says, he says, but I don't understand. He says, because when I came to Christ, I ran to the river, I had a desire to do this right. My heart said, I need to go do this right. And he said, I don't understand when somebody has really had a heart change, why they wouldn't. Why they're not running to the river. [00:16:27] Speaker B: I agree. A little background history. I was brought up being taught that baptism was essential to salvation. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Okay. Church of Christ. [00:16:45] Speaker B: Yes. So in that. I agree with Jace in that of. Even if it's not. Even if it's not. Now, you can go back to acts 238 where Peter says, repent and be baptized. He says, be baptized. He does. [00:17:06] Speaker A: And the great commission says, right, baptize. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:12] Speaker A: So to me, and I know it's not like one of the ten Commandments, but we are commanded to baptize people. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Right. Well, it is the last commandment. We were given before. [00:17:23] Speaker A: No, it was we are commanded to do. I've gotten not. I don't want to say arguments with people about it. Sure. But I've been no, like Jesus said to do this. [00:17:34] Speaker B: Right. But at the same time, I understand with a true heart change that way. You would want to do that. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Yes, you would. [00:17:41] Speaker B: You would want to be following in the footsteps of Jesus. And the exact same thing that Jesus did was he went to John the Baptist to be baptized. [00:17:52] Speaker A: He did. [00:17:52] Speaker B: He went to his know to be baptized. So when you think about those kind of things and you go back to that, what we talked about earlier and the misunderstanding of know and knowing what discipleship is case in point, after Paul, after Saul had his Damascus road experience, before he went on his first missionary journey, he spent ten years at the feet of the apostles. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Right. He wanted to learn. [00:18:26] Speaker B: He wanted to know exactly what he was. And so I think in some of this, we overlook the importance of what discipleship is. We overlook the importance of what walking daily with somebody is in their lives, as well as keeping us accountable in our lives. [00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah, you're 100% accurate that it's the importance of walking with somebody daily. It's the importance of that discipleship. What if they don't want that? [00:19:03] Speaker B: Then I have to question their salvation. Let me say this. I have to question the motive of their salvation. [00:19:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:13] Speaker B: Because it's not my job to question whether or not they're saved or not, but it is my job to inspect their fruit. We've talked about this multiple times on this podcast. [00:19:23] Speaker A: We have. [00:19:24] Speaker B: A lot of times. Right. So defining whether or not this person is saved and what the result of that salvation is going to be, whether it be heaven or hell, it's not my job judging the fruit of what their life produces. [00:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I think where I struggle is when people say, well, I'm a good person. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Well, Moses was a good person and didn't get him into the promised land. [00:20:02] Speaker A: You're right. [00:20:03] Speaker B: But then again, you would have known that if you read the Old Testament. [00:20:06] Speaker A: That's right. [00:20:10] Speaker B: You know what? You hit a rock one time and boom, you're out. [00:20:13] Speaker A: That's right. [00:20:15] Speaker B: But here's my thing. So we overlook those important things, and we try to fit God into our box by saying, because I'm a Christian, I can live however I want instead of forming ourselves into the image of Christ. [00:20:35] Speaker A: That's the key. Right. That's what we're supposed to do. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:41] Speaker A: And you and I have talked about this countless times. We've said this countless times. [00:20:45] Speaker B: Sure. [00:20:45] Speaker A: Every day. I want to be 1% more like Christ. [00:20:48] Speaker B: Better. [00:20:48] Speaker A: 1% better, right? [00:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:50] Speaker A: And that 1% better is closer to Christ. It's not. I'm going to be 1% better to be somewhere else. [00:20:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:58] Speaker A: Because my higher power is Oprah or something. Right? Yeah, it's 1% better. [00:21:04] Speaker B: More like, I'm sorry, I just got a Ricky Bobby image running around on. [00:21:10] Speaker A: Fire on the track. I know, right? [00:21:11] Speaker B: Save me, Oprah. Save me, Tom Cruise. [00:21:14] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:16] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:21:17] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [00:21:19] Speaker B: We're not going to talk about Talladega night. [00:21:21] Speaker A: That's right. I mean, we might. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Dear baby Jesus, non found six ounce. [00:21:32] Speaker A: That's how I choose. [00:21:33] Speaker B: No, that's not the way we pray. That's not the way Rick and I pray. [00:21:38] Speaker A: It's not. But it's like we can just do everything we possibly want to do to help somebody. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:49] Speaker A: But sometimes it's just not enough. [00:21:51] Speaker B: And sometimes, let me say this. Sometimes what we do to help somebody is not accepted by that person. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Yes. And so when do you recognize that you've done what God wanted you to do and it's okay to walk away? [00:22:11] Speaker B: Well, that's a tough question. It is, and it's a situational question. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Every situation is different. [00:22:17] Speaker B: So let me give you kind of a prime example. So several years ago, there was a lady that Rebecca and I knew at the church that we attended at the time that we were a part of and worshipped and served together there. And this woman and her husband had several different. How do I say this? Had a lot of different issues going on in their lives that were chemical. So she was wanting to kind of leave that lifestyle. He was more reluctant to leave it. So time goes on for about a year, Rebecca was kind of discipling this woman. The guy had left and was out of the picture, but was technically out of the picture, but he would still call and try. He was a. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Hang on. [00:23:29] Speaker B: So, anyway, Rebecca was very open and honest with this lady about setting boundaries spiritually and emotionally as well as physically, so that the times when he would come back in, try to come back into the picture, she wouldn't be persuaded or tempted to go back, and time and time and time and time again, she would call Rebecca and say, well, this is going on. He's doing this. And Rebecca would say, well, look, in order for that to stop, you need to do XYZ, or why don't you think about doing XYZ or ABC or all these different. And after giving her so many different pieces of advice, scriptural, biblical pieces of advice, she continued to just stay away from it. And she would choose to do kind of what she wanted to do instead of scripturally what Rebecca was showing her. [00:24:38] Speaker A: And do what was comfortable to. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Right. And so finally, Rebecca just said, look, I can't help you anymore. But it was through a lot of prayer. It was through a lot know, and I've had sponsors, like, know, I've had guys that come know, trying to work a recovery program and call me up and go, hey, man, I need you to. Would you be my sponsor? Sure, I'll be your sponsor, but we're going to do this by the book. There are certain things that you're going to have to do. And I'm not going to chase you. I'm here for you. But at the same time, I'm not the end all to be all. [00:25:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I think I've had guys who have asked me when I was helping with let's talk. They're like, hey, will you sponsor me? [00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:25] Speaker A: But here's the rules, right. You're going to call me every night at 08:00 yeah. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:31] Speaker A: It could be a five minute call. Hey, I'm good. It could be a 30, 45 minutes, hour long call because you got stuff you want to talk about. [00:25:39] Speaker B: Right. But at the same time, you have to. [00:25:41] Speaker A: But you have to call. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Well, you know, in a couple of days would go by and Linda would be like, did so and so call? No. Did you call? No. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:52] Speaker A: They're. They gotta be accountable. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Right. And that's the thing. And I think when we get to a point to where we realize that godly counsel and proven godly counsel, especially in things like let's talk. Or, like recovery as a sponsor sponsor relationship or things like that, those proven things that we celebrate. Celebrate recovery. Yeah. That's where I got clean and sober. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Yeah. That's huge in our church. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So in those things, knowing what, when you see somebody not taking hold of and not grasping those things, scripture. At the same time, I think you try to understand why they're not doing it. But if it's a choice of, well, it's just not convenient for me. That's when you wash your hands. [00:26:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:52] Speaker B: Because it's not something that they want to truly transform. They don't want to, like you said, have a heart change. Right. Because let's get to the bottom of it. All of that stuff, whether it be addiction, all those things, is sin. [00:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. Let me just say, addiction doesn't necessarily mean drugs or alcohol. [00:27:14] Speaker B: No. [00:27:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:27:15] Speaker B: Absolutely not. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Look, I have a problem with food. Right. Yeah, we know that. We've talked about it. We've talked about it. Right. But you can be an addict and not drink. [00:27:28] Speaker B: Sure. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Right, absolutely. You can be an addict and not do drugs. [00:27:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:27:33] Speaker A: You're addicted to something else. [00:27:35] Speaker B: Sure. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Right, sure. Whether it's gambling, gambling, drama, anger. Anger. Addicted to social media. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Sure. Absolutely. [00:27:47] Speaker A: There's a ton of different addictions. [00:27:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:27:49] Speaker A: And it doesn't make it any less of a problem. [00:27:52] Speaker B: No. You get to those issues and you try to make somebody understand what the help they can get looks like and feels like, and they choose to do something different. Just like the last sponsor that I had he called, he said, hey, man, I need a sponsor. And I look up to you. I was like, sure, let's do it. And I laid the rules out. I was like, look, I'm not going to chase you. I'm not going to go get you to take you to meetings. You can meet me at meetings because I'm going to be at the meeting. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Right? [00:28:37] Speaker B: I'm not going to buy your resource materials. If you're serious about this, you'll make a way for it, right? [00:28:43] Speaker A: You can buy the big book. I don't got to buy it. [00:28:45] Speaker B: I don't need to buy the big book right now. If you're in a pinch and you're like, look, man, I just had to make rent, child support, and the phone bill. I'm $5 short, dude. I'm going to throw $5 on you. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Different scenario. [00:29:00] Speaker B: You know what I'm saying? But you're making the effort to do it, right when that effort stops and you're like, no, man. Why didn't you call me? I'm the sponsor. [00:29:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you ever feel like Jesus is our sponsor? [00:29:20] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:29:23] Speaker A: Right? He's there waiting. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:29:26] Speaker A: We just got to call him. We just got to reach out. He set the rules, right? Never thought about that till just now, but I'm sure you. [00:29:35] Speaker B: Wait, let me read a scripture to you. Hold on. Let me find it. Go ahead. Go ahead with what your thought is. [00:29:42] Speaker A: But it's the same thing, right? He set the rules. He's not chasing us. He's always there for us when we need it, but we have to reach out to him. [00:29:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Right. Just like when you're sponsoring somebody, right? [00:29:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:57] Speaker A: You're always there for them, day or night, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. If it was 03:00 in the morning and they feel like, I got to talk to Batman, so I don't drink. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:08] Speaker A: You're going to answer the phone. [00:30:08] Speaker B: I'm going to absolutely answer. [00:30:10] Speaker A: And you're going to talk them off the ledge. [00:30:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:12] Speaker A: Well, Christ is the same way. [00:30:14] Speaker B: Yes. Here it is. Here's Jesus's phone number, everybody. Jeremiah 33 three, call to me and I will answer you. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:23] Speaker B: And will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. [00:30:28] Speaker A: Amen. [00:30:30] Speaker B: People think, but he's just so unapproachable. Right? There is scripture that shows otherwise. [00:30:41] Speaker A: What about his life? Said unapproachable. [00:30:44] Speaker B: Nothing. [00:30:45] Speaker A: Right? I've heard people say that, oh, he's just. [00:30:49] Speaker B: He's God. [00:30:51] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's true. His life was all about us. [00:30:56] Speaker B: But he's also the mediary. For us to get to the Lord, to get to God. [00:31:01] Speaker A: That's right. It was all about love. [00:31:02] Speaker B: It was all about love. It was all about love. Now, even when he made a whip and flipped tables and drove them out, that was still about love. [00:31:14] Speaker A: Yeah, still loving. [00:31:16] Speaker B: So I don't get where people can say he's just unapproachable now. That's something else that we need to talk about. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Well, I think there was fear, right? [00:31:27] Speaker B: But at the same time, where is that heart change? [00:31:31] Speaker A: That's what it is. Right. Because for me, before a heart change, I was like, I can't go to church. I don't have a suit. Right? [00:31:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Right? Strike. If I walk in that building. [00:31:49] Speaker B: Yeah. That thing will implode. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Right. I smoke this, I can't go to church. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:55] Speaker A: Well, then I had a heart change. I was like, I'm going to church. [00:31:58] Speaker B: I can't miss it. [00:32:01] Speaker A: I don't have a suit. I'm going shorts and flip flops. I don't care. Yeah. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Right. Absolutely. [00:32:07] Speaker A: And I'm welcome because Christ welcomes me. [00:32:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:09] Speaker A: And if the church building that I show up to in shorts or flip flops doesn't welcome me, well, I'll go to another one. [00:32:16] Speaker B: But let me clarify something, and I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. Yeah, okay. I'm not. But the come as you are thing isn't a stay as you are thing. [00:32:30] Speaker A: I don't go in shorts and flip flops today. [00:32:32] Speaker B: And I'm not saying that shorts and flip flops are a bad thing. That's not what I'm saying. [00:32:35] Speaker A: I know what you're saying. [00:32:36] Speaker B: But that mentality of I'm just going to wear shorts and flip flops to church and rain on whoever doesn't like it. I'm not saying that you can't wear shorts and flip flops to church. What I'm saying is the come as you are thing and stay as you are thing is not what Jesus Christ wants in your life. [00:32:51] Speaker A: He wants you to grow. [00:32:52] Speaker B: He wants you to come as you are. But change and grow and become more like I get. [00:33:01] Speaker A: But that doesn't mean change my clothes. [00:33:03] Speaker B: That doesn't know. [00:33:05] Speaker A: Right? No, because look at his clothes. [00:33:08] Speaker B: True. [00:33:09] Speaker A: Right. [00:33:09] Speaker B: True. [00:33:10] Speaker A: I mean, he was homeless for three years, at least. I mean, the three years of his ministry, he was at a very minimum. He was homeless for three years. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Three years. Right. [00:33:20] Speaker A: And, you know, just couch surfing. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Can you imagine? So, did Broy Hill have anything? Can you imagine the eBay or the Facebook marketplace. This is the couch Jesus slept on. [00:33:38] Speaker A: Right. $500. [00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah, $500. It's worth $6 total. [00:33:45] Speaker A: Yeah. We've covered kind of a wide range of different topics today. [00:33:51] Speaker B: We have. But it's been all in kind of. [00:33:53] Speaker A: One tunnel vision about that salvation. Right. [00:33:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So we kaleidoscoped this. [00:33:58] Speaker A: Yeah. How do you walk out that salvation? [00:34:02] Speaker B: It's obvious that the way that we have to walk it out is being as those who are more spiritually mature to disciple those who are not. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:34:15] Speaker B: So that you build this foundation of believers, unified in what the word says and unified in belief of that word, so that as new believers come in, somebody is always there to disciple. And we follow out the great commission by doing just that. Now, that doesn't mean that I have arrived or you have arrived or anybody else has arrived after you have discipled 16 people. That's right. There's not a magic number for that. [00:34:52] Speaker A: There's not. [00:34:54] Speaker B: But my point is we disciple people who disciple people who disciple people. And at the same time, we're still. [00:35:00] Speaker A: Discipling people and still being discipled. [00:35:04] Speaker B: That's the point. [00:35:05] Speaker A: Right. Let's just be clear. Just because I think that I am. [00:35:08] Speaker B: Spiritually mature doesn't mean I don't need direction. [00:35:11] Speaker A: I still absolutely need direction. [00:35:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:35:14] Speaker A: Every day. Right. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Every day. [00:35:16] Speaker A: And that's not why I go to a church building, but that's why I have a pastor. Well, that's why I have you and other. [00:35:25] Speaker B: That's what I was going to say. That's why we have our Friday morning zoom calls. [00:35:28] Speaker A: That's right. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Why we have just conversations on the phone. [00:35:30] Speaker A: I have to be accountable. [00:35:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:35:32] Speaker A: Right. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:35:33] Speaker A: It can't be. Well, I've arrived. I don't need any help. [00:35:37] Speaker B: Sure. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Because it's never that. [00:35:38] Speaker B: It's never going to be that. Because we will never arrive. [00:35:41] Speaker A: No. There was only one perfect. [00:35:44] Speaker B: Exactly. And no matter how much we strive to be that, no matter how hard we self proclaim ourselves to be. [00:35:51] Speaker A: That's right. [00:35:52] Speaker B: There's still those inconsistencies. [00:35:54] Speaker A: And so what I would say to that also is that because we continually have to strive, recognize that so does everybody else. Right. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:06] Speaker A: So if you believe that you're this holier than thou Christian. Stop. Just stop. But if you believe that you can continue to act any way you want and you're forgiven, stop. Right. Because we are called to be more like Christ. [00:36:24] Speaker B: True. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Right. And you can't just choose to do anything you want because you're going to heaven. [00:36:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:35] Speaker A: That doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean you're condemned. It just means, like, if you have a real heart change, you should not want to do those things. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:44] Speaker A: You can't just wave the white flag and be like, I'm going to heaven. [00:36:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:49] Speaker A: Jesus forgave me. [00:36:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:51] Speaker A: I quit. [00:36:51] Speaker B: No. Because there are so many scriptures to back that up. Faith without works is dead. [00:36:59] Speaker A: That's right. And so let's say that. Right. Faith without works is dead. So some people may say, well, I do a lot of stuff. Right? I have faith and I do a lot of stuff. But what they don't recognize is faith without works could also mean the work in your own life. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:17] Speaker A: The work in you becoming a better person. [00:37:19] Speaker B: Sure. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Exactly. A more christlike person called sanctification. [00:37:24] Speaker B: It absolutely is. [00:37:26] Speaker A: And we all have to walk that out every day. And if we're not willing to walk that out, did we really have a heart change? [00:37:32] Speaker B: Did we really accept that? Salvation? [00:37:36] Speaker A: That's a great question. [00:37:39] Speaker B: Now, let me say this, because there are things that we learn as we progress, as we grow in our spiritual maturity. And some of the things that I may not have realized at the point of salvation that I have since learned and since brought. That's sanctification as well. That's also discipleship. [00:38:01] Speaker A: It is. It absolutely is. I know way more today than I did when I came to Christ. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:38:06] Speaker A: I mean, like, a ridiculous amount more. [00:38:08] Speaker B: Well, yeah. [00:38:09] Speaker A: And it's probably only 5% of what I should know. [00:38:13] Speaker B: I'd say about three for me. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:38:15] Speaker B: You know what I mean? [00:38:16] Speaker A: I was being very generous when I said 5%, but I say that because I still have to learn every day. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Right. It's always a continual process, and we never stop growing. They say that. What is it, your hair and your fingernails. [00:38:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Never stop growing. Even after death. [00:38:35] Speaker A: I mean, my hair stops growing. [00:38:36] Speaker B: Well, yours stopped a long time ago. [00:38:37] Speaker A: It did. It did stop a long time ago. [00:38:39] Speaker B: It's like, nope. [00:38:40] Speaker A: Yep, you're done. [00:38:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll add you. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:44] Speaker B: But. But here's the thing. We need to be just like that in our spiritual. [00:38:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:48] Speaker B: To never stop growing. There was a book that Rebecca and I read called Monday mornings with my old pastor. [00:38:58] Speaker A: Okay. [00:38:59] Speaker B: And it was a pastor of a church that. And I don't even know where that copy of that book is anyway, squirrel. Where this guy was pastoring a church, and he would go on Monday mornings to go visit his old pastor, who was retired. And the thing that impressed him the most about his old pastor was this old, worn out pillow. And he asked him. They caught up, and then they studied the word, and he finally gets around to asking his old pastor, what's with this old pillow? And he said, that's where I spend my time in prayer every single day. And you see the footstep. You could see the path worn to that pillow where he would be on his knees praying every day. [00:39:57] Speaker A: Wow. [00:39:59] Speaker B: And this is what impresses me the most, this man. And I don't know if the book was fiction or nonfiction or what. It doesn't matter. The premise of the story still remains is that we should never, ever, not just cease to grow. But here is a retired pastor. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:20] Speaker B: Somebody that pastored a church for years and years and years, has retired now and still prays for the sheep of the world every day. The congregation. Not just the congregation that he pastored. [00:40:35] Speaker A: But all of them. [00:40:36] Speaker B: Everybody. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:38] Speaker B: And spent enough time that you see worn spots in the carpet that lead up to the place that he prayed. We never, ever need to feel like we've reached a point that we can't grow anymore in Christ. [00:40:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:56] Speaker B: And to continue that relationship, to build with him, for intimacy with Christ, starts in prayer and in study. [00:41:07] Speaker A: That's how we communicate with him, is prayer. Right. That's a conversation. [00:41:11] Speaker B: It is, right. It is. [00:41:12] Speaker A: He'll answer. You just got a call. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Right? Jeremiah 33. [00:41:17] Speaker A: You just got a call. [00:41:18] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:41:20] Speaker A: All right. It's been a good one. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Yes, it has. I've enjoyed this. It's been a long time since we've been together, and it's good to be back. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Yeah. We'll be more focused this year, I think. [00:41:29] Speaker B: I think. [00:41:29] Speaker A: So into the new year. The holidays are always hard. [00:41:31] Speaker B: They really are. [00:41:32] Speaker A: A couple of months there that both of us are pretty swamped. [00:41:35] Speaker B: So October being just a crazy, crazy month for both of us, and then November rolls around, and it wasn't a whole lot better. [00:41:43] Speaker A: No. And then I went to India. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Then you went to India. Yeah. [00:41:46] Speaker A: So it was crazy. [00:41:47] Speaker B: It's nuts. [00:41:48] Speaker A: But all in all, it's been a great time this year. [00:41:51] Speaker B: It has. [00:41:52] Speaker A: I think this is episode 113. [00:41:58] Speaker B: I knew we were, like, over 110. I didn't know this is 113. 113, okay. [00:42:03] Speaker A: Give or take. But that's huge, right? I mean, it's big. Really doing it together for a long time. And it's a blessing to do this. [00:42:10] Speaker B: It really is. [00:42:13] Speaker A: We're able to. [00:42:14] Speaker B: I'm honored to be here. I want to say this not just because it's Christmas time, but I'm honored that you call me friend and I'm able to call you friend. The feeling is mutual, folks. Rick and I are very close. We are extremely close and have been for a while. But it's good to sit across the table from a man that you care about and, you know, cares about you that you're able to share things with. And even in the times where we disagreed, there's been some times. There's been some times. [00:42:49] Speaker A: But still loved each other. [00:42:50] Speaker B: We still love each other. We do. We're brothers in Christ and we're called to the same ministry. It's amazing to be able to work in the kingdom with you. I appreciate it. [00:43:05] Speaker A: I appreciate it. [00:43:06] Speaker B: So, hey, folks, we appreciate you listening in. We are on every single streaming, podcast platform and on YouTube. [00:43:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we are on YouTube video if you want to see our ugly mugs. [00:43:20] Speaker B: Yeah, somebody told me the other day is like, I watch you guys on YouTube while I'm driving. I'm like, why do you. [00:43:26] Speaker A: Why are you driving? Yeah, that seems pretty distracting. [00:43:29] Speaker B: It is distracting. I'm like, plus, I mean, one of us at some point is going to pick our nose in the podcast. [00:43:35] Speaker A: Maybe. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Probably. [00:43:36] Speaker A: I try not to, though. It's been itching for like 20 minutes. [00:43:41] Speaker B: Hey, we appreciate you listening in and we always want to remind you to. [00:43:45] Speaker A: Love people and love God.