[00:00:09] Speaker A: Hey, everybody, it's Rick and Rob. Welcome back to the Nomad Pastor podcast.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: That was smooth, wasn't it? That was good. It was good.
[00:00:14] Speaker A: I had to do it twice.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah. This is the first time in Nomad Pastor podcast history that Rick and I have done it together, that we've actually went. Screwed it up.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: Do it again. Start over.
[00:00:27] Speaker B: Luckily, it was like 5 seconds in less than that.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: It was the intro into it. It was great.
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Right when the music came on, it was fun. I hosed. It's okay.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: We're allowed mulligans. Yeah.
[00:00:43] Speaker A: So this is a new year.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Season four of the Nomad Pastor podcast.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Isn't that cool?
[00:00:49] Speaker A: I'm going to be honest with you. It is crazy, I think. Humbling, maybe.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. How many episodes is this?
[00:00:55] Speaker A: This one, I think, is 114.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: I couldn't remember. It was 13 or 14.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: I think it's 114, technically.
We released one in 2024, but we recorded that last year.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:01:08] Speaker A: So this is the first one that we're recording in, and it's just been a great ride.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: And here's the thing. In this great ride, the way that we have grown in this has been. What are you looking at?
[00:01:27] Speaker A: I was just making sure it's recording.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Oh.
The way that we've grown outside of what the podcast is spiritually.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Of course, our friendship has always been strong.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: But every time we're together, it gets better.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Well. And you know what's crazy is, in the four years that this has been going and two and a half years that we've been doing it together, right.
Our ministries have grown. So I think it's what you're saying. It kind of all piggybacks onto each other.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: I agree.
[00:02:01] Speaker A: You know, there was a period of time with bikers for Christ from a Nashville chapter point of view, that there was, like four of us. Right. Four or five of us, and we just kind of ran as hard as we could. Yeah. We were at our chapter meeting.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: A.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: Week ago, a week ago today, and there was 21 people there.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: That's fantastic.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: Right now that's husbands and wives, hangarounds, prospects, sure, support people, but 21?
[00:02:29] Speaker B: That's amazing, man.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Right?
[00:02:31] Speaker B: That's amazing.
[00:02:31] Speaker A: It's crazy.
[00:02:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: And your ministry, like, forged in Tennessee.
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Is just taking off.
[00:02:37] Speaker A: Booming.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: You guys are doing great things.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Thank you. And here's the.
Can't.
Can I go ahead and tell it?
[00:02:47] Speaker A: I mean, that's up to you.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: If it's public knowledge.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's public knowledge. So I was the president of the Lazarus crew for forge Brotherhood here in Tennessee since inception. In 21. Yeah, right.
I just stepped into a national role as our national road captain.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Last Friday, a week ago today.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, we didn't get together last week.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: I had stuff going on.
[00:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it was kind of crazy at work, some meetings and stuff. Yeah. And then had club stuff going with the meetings and stuff. So, yeah, it was a big deal.
I've struggled this past week with that transition of being the guy for the state for so long.
And we were in a meeting Monday night, and I was sitting beside the new p, and of course, he's one of the originals.
Dynamite.
[00:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah, he's one of 23.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, he's one of 23.
He's one of the rivets. Yeah. And of course, the first thing I did, we sit down this meeting, I pulled out my notebook, start taking notes, and then look over and went, wait, I'm not the pee anymore. I don't have to take notes. I'm just here to tell everybody I'm not the pee.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: You know what's crazy about that is we're at our chapter meeting, and two plates is talking about something, and he's giving Pete a hard time because two plates is our regional and I'm the state, but Pete is the chapter, and it was the chapter meeting.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:25] Speaker A: And I said, well, that's great, two plates. But we're not the boss here. Yeah, he's our boss. Yeah.
[00:04:30] Speaker B: We're just in this meeting.
[00:04:32] Speaker A: He was like, well, I don't know that I like you right now. You know how two plates is.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
It's funny that you go into a place like the first time that I'm on a crew call and not being the guy.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I know what you're saying.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: It's going to feel weird. And I guess in my crew, I'm a jam. Just a member.
[00:04:59] Speaker A: That's right. And that's what I am for Nashville.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: But then they're like, okay, now what do you got? Anything for the state?
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's the thing.
You walk in somewhere and they go, yep. National officer on a. It's weird, but it's something that you.
I don't know. You got to get used to it.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: I'm really looking forward to this year, me, I'm looking forward to everything that our ministries do, everything that we can do to build the kingdom, everything that we can do that is outside of motorcycle ministries.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's a lot of things that we do together outside of that kind.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: Of stuff that is.
And I think we started to kind of, towards the end of the year, do more and more for kind of not just the Coc side of clubs. And you guys are doing more and more as well. And so I think as we look at how that works, right. Just this huge upside to it.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: And by the way, officially forged brotherhood wants to invite bikers for Christ. And I guess I need to talk to Pete about this. Well, I'm sorry, dynamite needs to talk to.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Right? That's right.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: So, dynamite and Pete, you guys have a conversation about all for him ministries. Let's make it work.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Pete used to do it a lot with him. And Heather are close.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:23] Speaker A: And I know Heather. Heather and I have talked a ton of times. And what you guys should do, I still got like 30 boxes of hand sanitizer downstairs.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Do you really? Yeah.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Should just take them to all for him.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:06:36] Speaker A: All of them? Yeah, because, I mean, look, they're alcohol free.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Ain't nobody going to be drinking them.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: That's true.
That's true.
[00:06:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: So, Agro, Albert, come and get these.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: Come and get these boxes.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Come get these boxes. Yeah.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Don't you got a prospecting come over?
[00:06:51] Speaker B: I got agro. He's a junior pack.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: I know. I'm just saying.
He wasn't on this morning.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: What's he doing? I don't know. I don't know.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: I got to give him a hard time.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah, we talked on Marco a couple of times, but I haven't sat down and talked with him today yet.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Later on this afternoon.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: All right. So this morning in group. Right. So if you've listened at all, you know that we do a men's group Friday morning.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Friday Morning, yeah.
[00:07:17] Speaker A: 630. And I had mentioned something. I had read this book.
I don't remember the name of the book. I'm going to be honest. And I tried remembering today, and I looked up. I guarantee you, if I asked my wife the name of the book, she's going to tell.
[00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah. That's the same way with my wife.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: She'll be like, it was that book.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: But in this book, it talked about how when we come to Christ, how we are sinners saved by grace. Right? But the author, he was a pastor. Like I said, I just don't remember the name of the book. But he said he doesn't like to hear people say, I'm a sinner saved by grace.
Because once you are saved, you're not a sinner saved by grace anymore. You're a saint who sometimes sins.
[00:08:06] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: And it's because of the process of Christ dying for our sins.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Right. So you said, hey, I want to table that, and I want to talk about it on a podcast. So here we are.
[00:08:21] Speaker B: Okay, so first of all, let's break this down into chunks.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:27] Speaker B: Okay, so let's look at what scripture says.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: This is romans eight.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: All right, so go ahead.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: This one is two, corinthians 17.
And then the big one, which is ephesian. That's Romans.
[00:08:45] Speaker B: That's Romans 17. That's Romans eleven.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: Romans eleven. The big one is Ephesians. I don't know what I did with that one. Ephesians two.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: That one fell out of your bible.
Yeah, no, that's where your bookmark is.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: No, it's on Romans.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Oh, it's on Romans. Okay, well, you're getting close. Galatians.
[00:09:03] Speaker A: It's Ephesians two right there.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Yeah. General Electric power company. That's how you remember. Galatians, Ephesians.
Okay, so where do you want to start? Do you want to start in Ephesians, or.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: You start in Ephesians. Right?
And it's two, one through ten. It says, as for you, you were dead in your transgressions, in sin, in which you used to live when you followed the way of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom, of the heir, the spirit, who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Now, I can go on and on and on, but I want to stop there for a minute, because everything that it talks about in here is past tense.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Right. Also, this says, all of us also lived among them. Right, right. You were dead in your transgressions. So these are all past tense, not current, not future.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Right. So where did I end?
Pick up on four. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead. Again, past tense. We were dead in transgressions. It is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms. In Christ Jesus, verse seven is in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not for yourselves. It is a gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
[00:10:56] Speaker B: Okay, so the statement that was made in the book was, you should not count yourself as a sinner saved by grace.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: He was saying he didn't like that statement because we were born sinners.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: But once we are saved, once we truly walk the path out with Christ, we've had a heart change.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Okay? Right.
[00:11:21] Speaker A: Which I think is key.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: I think so.
[00:11:23] Speaker A: But once you've had a heart change, are you still a sinner, or are you somebody who sometimes sins? There's another way to put it. And when I was doing some research today, it said that you shouldn't call yourself a sinner saved by grace. You should call yourself a child of God.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Okay, I can get on board with a mindset change.
[00:11:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: Okay, go ahead.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: All right, so that's the first part of it, right?
And then, like romans 817 says, now, if we are children, then we are heirs. Heirs of God and co heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Okay, so it's saying that he's already suffered for us. Right? We shared in that. So that means we share in the glory, which means aren't we saints today?
[00:12:21] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: And I don't mean saint in the term of, like, a catholic saint.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: You know what I mean?
[00:12:26] Speaker B: I know what you're saying.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: All right, so tell me what you think about what we've read so far.
[00:12:29] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:12:30] Speaker A: Before we get all muddied. Right?
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Because where we're going next in two corinthians is going to be a little bit muddy. Not really muddy, but yeah.
So here's my thing. Here's my take on this.
I.
I agree with the heart change. Yeah. Okay. I also agree that the heart of stone that was within me, that God changed to flesh in my rebirth through Christ is vital to my identity.
Okay.
However, I'm not going to allow myself, because what does Paul call himself?
Paul called himself the chief of sinners. Right.
[00:13:33] Speaker A: But what does Christ call him?
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Christ calls him redeemed.
However, I don't have that opportunity to do so because I'm not Christ.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: But Christ said, you are redeemed.
[00:13:48] Speaker B: True.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Right? I'm not saying that.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: But also Christ is also able to judge and judge salvation. And I'm not.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: And I'm not guessing that we judge salvation.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: I know you're not.
[00:14:00] Speaker A: If Christ says that I'm redeemed, right. That if I follow him, that I am redeemed, right. Am I still a sinner?
[00:14:09] Speaker B: I think for all intense practices and purposes, even as a saint, that sometimes sin, we're still sinners.
[00:14:23] Speaker A: But am I a sinner saved by grace? If you're saved, okay, I mean, I am saved by grace, right? But once you're through faith.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: That's what it says right there in verse ten.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: This is true. Right. But in two corinthians 517, it says, therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come, the old has gone, and the new is here.
[00:14:45] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:46] Speaker A: So if I am truly in Christ, I'm walking it out.
I'm saved by grace, but I'm a sinner.
[00:14:57] Speaker B: Right.
All right, so let me ask you this, okay? If you polish up a turd and make it shiny, is it a shiny turd or still just a turd?
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Let me ask a question about that turd, okay?
Did you just pick the turd out of nowhere, or did Christ say you're new?
[00:15:21] Speaker B: Okay, so here's my point.
[00:15:25] Speaker A: I know what your point is, and.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: I'm not disagreeing, but people that are listening may not.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:30] Speaker B: Okay, so let's go there.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: And that's okay. Right?
[00:15:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: But at the end of the day, we're children of God.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: We are, we are.
[00:15:39] Speaker A: We are redeemed through our faith in Christ.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:43] Speaker A: Right. And because of that faith, we are given grace.
[00:15:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:48] Speaker A: We're not given grace without the faith.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Not without faith. Also understand this, that faith without works is dead right now. My works are not going to make my salvation, excuse me, my salvation that much more prevalent.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: It's not going to make me have more of a reward in heaven, but my faith is going to make me want to do good deeds and works.
[00:16:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:18] Speaker B: For the Lord.
[00:16:18] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Right. So in that, if you're looking at a mind change of the way that you are described or the way that you describe yourself, either way, scripture tells us that there's not a perfect man.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: Right.
Not only is no one perfect, but that every single one of us have sinned.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: Absolutely. Let me ask you this, because a couple of podcasts ago, we talked about is it okay to continue being a jackwad and be a Christian? I'm saved by grace, right? Yeah, but it's not any different if you call yourself a sinner saved by grace. Well, I can just keep go sinning.
That's the mindset that he's trying to identify in the book.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: In that mindset, if you're just like.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: Well, I'm a sinner saved by grace. I can do whatever I want.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: Right. The Bible is saying you can't. Right. But if you say, I'm a saint who sometimes sins, your mindset changes.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: But what is the difference in changing your mindset if your heart doesn't follow it? Because there's all kinds of people that were like, I can speak this into existence.
I want a brand new Corvette. I'm claiming that the Lord's going to give me a new corvette.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: I mean, good for you if that's what you want.
[00:17:44] Speaker B: Well, it's impossible.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: It is impossible. Right. But the question still remains, how do you identify really is what it's about.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Okay. In that identification.
My identification will always be a follower of Christ who sold out for Jesus because of the salvation that he brought to my life.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Okay, I agree with that.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Me too.
[00:18:17] Speaker B: Right now in that, and you have heard this many times before, hey, we're getting ready to go this rally, right? We're going to go to this motorcycle rally and we're going to have a tent. And BFC and Ford Brotherhood is going to have this easy up tent together. And we're going to be ministering in this tent. People will come by and we're going to have an opportunity to share the gospel and walk out among crowd at easy riders or at Junebug boogie. Now, folks, don't go to Junebug boogie.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not going to.
[00:18:56] Speaker B: We're not going there either. But what I'm saying is rumble on the river or things like Thunder Beach. Thunder beach, right. Daytona bike week. Yeah. Right. So we go to these events and we have this place where we can, and we're instructed, we're taught to, hey, have a little two, three minute personal testimony together that shows God good, devil, bad and what he's done in your life to give somebody some hope.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: Your elevator pitch.
[00:19:23] Speaker B: Right. Exactly. Right.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: I mean, I hate to say it like that, but that's what it is.
[00:19:26] Speaker B: Basically. What it is.
[00:19:27] Speaker A: It is your elevator pitch.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: Right. So you have these things in mind and you have these things going and you have this conversation starter. So that, as we talked about earlier this morning, about when you get to the point, you show somebody Jesus, you tell them about his grace and his mercy, and you talk about his salvation and then you ask them, are you ready to make this decision right now? Spiritual maturity will show us when that question is actually appropriate. We'll call it that appropriate to be asked or not.
Somebody has never heard the name of Jesus before and you're asking them, are you ready to be saved? Are you ready to allow him to be your savior and your lord? They're going to be like, what? But people who know, people who understand the difference in right and wrong and have some, I won't say biblical understanding, but know what salvation means and things like, there's a difference in asking that question.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: I agree.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: So here's my point with all that.
When we get ready for ministering in that way, right.
The definition of me, of Rob, of Batman, of what I used to be is a sinner who's no longer lost but saved by grace.
[00:21:06] Speaker A: But wouldn't you say I used to be a sinner who's no longer.
[00:21:09] Speaker B: That's what I just said. A sinner who was lost but is now saved by grace.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: So in that, even if I say I'm a saint who sometimes sins, that's polishing the turd, in my opinion.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: I get what you're saying. And first of all, let me just say, we are not advocating for people to.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: No, not at all.
We're also not advocating for people to use the grace card as a crutch.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: That's right. So we're not advocating that it's okay to sin, no matter whether you say I'm a sinner saved by grace or I'm a saint who sometimes sin. Or again, as you said, we don't use the grace card as a crutch.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Right.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: But I think there are some people who get in their mind, for whatever reason, that if I'm a sinner saved by grace, then it never matters.
Now, maybe those are the people who haven't had a real heart change. Right.
Maybe those are the people that just struggle sometimes with the relationship that they have with Christ.
And so while it shouldn't matter whether you say I'm a sinner saved by grace or not, I think that there may be a part of people that are struggling with where they are that feel like if I'm a sinner and I'm always going to be a sinner, then it doesn't matter.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
Okay.
So let's take that in another.
[00:22:57] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Okay. And I want to start that off by saying this.
I met Randall reader. Do you know who he is?
[00:23:04] Speaker A: No, I do not.
[00:23:04] Speaker B: Randall reader is.
He was a professional wrestler turned actor. He was the star of a pureflix miniseries called Sons of Thunder.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: Or son of thunder I think I know you're talking about.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I met him in Jackson.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: A few months ago. And we were talking. Of course. I was on the bike with possum. Possum was on his bike, not on my bike. We were on the bike.
[00:23:32] Speaker A: You were on the back of his bike.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
There's a story there that I got to tell you sometimes. Anyway, so we're stopped for gas, and Randall reader walks up and he's talking about the bikes. Of course, it's raining and it's getting cold, and we're talking and he's asking about patches and things on our cuts.
He's a biker. He's a great guy. He's very humble.
[00:24:00] Speaker A: Big dude, right?
[00:24:01] Speaker B: He's a huge dude.
Yeah.
I'm 64, and he's like an inch and a half, two inches taller than me. He's a big dude. Anyway, we get to talking, obviously, because of us being a christian MC, we get to talking about our spiritual walk and things like that. And he goes, I describe my spiritual walk sometimes as a stumble with God, because I stumble so many times.
[00:24:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: And it wasn't something that he was like, I'm going to continue to just crawl along.
What he's saying is, in my stumble with God, I want it to be better.
I want it to be a walk, then I want it to be a run, and I want to forever be with him.
But too many people interpret things differently and hear what they want to hear instead of what the heart is trying to say. And when we get into those things, like, well, I'm just always going to be a sinner, so why try?
That's what our hearts are saying in that moment is woe, is know pity me.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Yeah. We are pity.
You know? Poor, poor Rick can't get nothing he wants.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: Boy can't get. Right?
[00:25:33] Speaker A: Can't never go to Domino's, or poor Rick can't eat little caesars, get a blizzard at Derek, can't have a donut. Yeah, right. But you're right. They are saying, poor me. Yeah, but I think.
Not us. Let me start there.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: But I think there is a culture in american Christianity that condemns people so bad for minor, what they would deem minor.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: I know where you're going with it.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Right.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:26:17] Speaker A: That terminology of I'm a sinner for a minor sin.
[00:26:25] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: Like, it's okay for me to rob, cheat and steal, but I didn't kill anybody.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Right.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: There's always the but I didn't this, I didn't that. And so I think the book was all about terminology. Right? And if you continue to tell people that they're sinners, then they might as well be sinners if you continue to just beat them to death with you're a sinner. You're a sinner, you're a sinner.
Well, they're going to be sinners.
I've been to churches that the pastor from the pulpit every week was hellfire and brimstone. You're a sinner and you're going to hell every week.
Right. And so everybody in that congregation is like, oh, crap, I can never be good enough.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
So the story of the Pharisee praying, lord, I thank you that I'm not like this.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: What is a tax collector? I think it is a tax collector. And the tax collector is over there beating his chest like, God, I'm so sorry I have wronged you.
And so the question is asked, whose prayer is heard?
Right? Is it all about me?
I think in the definition of ourselves as a saint, that sometimes sin instead of a sinner saved by grace, realizing what the difference is on one side of the line versus the other, I think that's key.
[00:28:06] Speaker A: Realizing the difference, right.
[00:28:09] Speaker B: In that I'm not going to be pharasitical in the things that I do and thank God I'm not like this guy, right.
And realizing the inhumbleness that where I came from as a sinner, realizing that I am saved by grace, realizing that the grace that has been afforded to me is so far above my pay grade, it is so far out of my reach to grasp and understand. It is so far above me in royalty that there is no way understanding of where I came from and where I'm going, that I want to align myself in a pharasitical thought process of thank God that I'm not like this tax collector.
And in my mind, trying to remain as a humble servant like Paul called himself a humble servant of Jesus, the chief of sinners.
He called himself the chief of sinners, not Jesus the chief of sinners. But anyway, I want to remain humble that way so that in my mind, I don't let myself out, kick my coverage by saying I'm a saint, that sometimes sin.
[00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I see that. I get it.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:38] Speaker A: But I think it's hard for a lot of people. And again, I go back to.
Yes, right.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: It's so much different here than it is other.
And, you know, I think. I think that's a struggle for a lot of people. There's a reason that in the United States, Christianity is not growing. It's shrinking.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: There's a lot of reasons for that.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: But then in third world countries, it's the fastest growing thing out there, and it's because of the relationship these people have with Christ. Not the religion.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Not the. We have to vote or we have to do this or we have to do that.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Live your best life.
And the biggest difference is people realize that living their best life is to be crucified with Christ.
[00:30:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: And to follow in those.
And I'm not saying that we have to all be martyrs for Christ, but I'm saying we have to defend our faith to the point of, in the event of.
[00:30:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
What I would say to that is I agree we don't all have to be martyrs, but we have to be prepared to be martyrs.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: Exactly. Right, exactly.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: If somebody put a gun to your head and said, renounce it, would you?
I can't.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: I can't. Yeah, pull it.
[00:31:05] Speaker A: I'm going to take my last breath and be with God because. Can't renounce it.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
And here is the comfort that I take in that, in knowing that when I don't renounce him, the reward that I have versus the reward that the dude to pull the trigger is going to have unless he changes his mind.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: It's just so much different.
And it's funny because we talk about, well, it's daylight and dark difference.
Exactly.
Forever tormented or eternal reward.
[00:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah, but that eternal reward is there for everybody.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: It doesn't matter what you did.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Right.
[00:32:01] Speaker A: That's where I struggle with the people who are like, well, that was just a minor sin.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Look, folks, a sin is a sin.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: Right. If I lie to you or I steal from you, a sin is a sin.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: And my repentance is the same to Christ.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: Exactly.
There's too much scriptural evidence of showing that there's parable. We talked about that in parables. We have talked about that and so many different things.
It's time to bring this one to an end. Right. Okay, so here's what I want to say as far as what this conversation has been about. Right.
When we started talking about this this morning in our bible study call, Rick was like, I believe this is warmer. Batman's going to disagree with me. Not necessarily, but at the same time, there are some things that need to be said. Now, I want to say this in the way that I choose to describe myself in my salvation as a sinner who is saved by grace.
Choosing that keeps me in a humble frame of mind.
It keeps me at a place to where I remember who my savior is and I remember why I took my lord on in baptism and took him on in salvation to follow him, to trust him and to serve him.
So I keep this mindset of humbleness in, when I don't do those three things, when I don't serve him, when I don't follow him, when I don't love him, then I am putting myself up on a pedestal that is disregarding the grace that I'm saved with.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: I think I understand that, and I agree with it until this morning, even though I've read this book probably a year ago.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: You've probably never heard me say I'm a saint who sometimes sins.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: I have never heard you. Right.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: But it was interesting for me to think about that when we were on the call this morning. Like, what does this mean? I'm not saying I identify that way.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: No.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: And I didn't say that.
But what's interesting is I think that if I were to verbalize what I feel, it would be, I used to be a sinner, but I am saved by grace.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Right.
[00:34:52] Speaker A: Because I every day tried to walk out that growth. Right.
We've talked about it before that 1% more like Christ every day. Every day. I'm never going to accomplish 100%.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: No.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: Nobody ever will.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: No.
[00:35:09] Speaker A: Right. But I also want to give myself some credit for what God has done in my life. And when I say give myself credit, credit for listening to God. Right.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:25] Speaker A: It's not that I did it. It's I listened to what he told me to do. Right. I recognize what God was saying and the Holy Spirit was saying, and Christ was like, look, dude, pull your head out of your know. Right. Excuse me for saying so. If I were to personally say it, I'd say I used to be a sinner, but, yeah, but I'm saved by grace.
[00:35:50] Speaker B: Exactly. God, but God.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: Right.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Two of the most powerful words ever spoken, but God.
[00:35:58] Speaker A: Right.
Yeah, that's been a good one.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: It has. I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed it. So, see, folks, even though we acted like we were going to disagree, we actually agree. Yeah, kind of.
Hey, we're so thankful that you're here.
We want to challenge you. And Rick and I have talked about, we came out of the parables and we took a break from that for a while. Not saying we won't ever do parables again, but we decided to go kind of a topical pathway for a little while.
But we want to hear from you.
Send us an email. Send us an email at
[email protected] give us some feedback. How do you identify, do you identify as sinner, saved by grace, or do you look at yourself as a saint who sometimes sins and give us reasoning for that. But we are on every single platform of choice for podcasts and even YouTube.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: And you can look at our ugly face.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Yeah, unfortunately.
But we thank you for being here. We'd love to hear from you. If you have a topic that you would like for us to approach, I'll say it that way. As an approach. As an approach, we'd love to hear from you. So send us an email at hello at nomad pastor.org. And we look forward to those. We look at those together and we just want to remind you to love.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: God and love people.
